tlaero wrote:Imagine two choices.
1) Patreon does what just about every other place does and bans all NSFW content, thus completely shutting people like Mortze and I down.
2) Patreon makes the changes they need to make to not be forced to do #1.
I side with #2. And I'm speaking as someone who literally asked for permission to do a particular path in one of my games and was turned down.
I'm curious what it was and in what (planned?) game, but even more curious of their reply and their reason for it.
I'd much rather them say, "Incest is defined as any sexual relationship between relatives, and you can't show that in your games" than, "You can't show any sexual relationship in your games."
Yeah, but what if they decide that they are shutting down all sexual content on their site? What do you do then, other than wait for another platform to appear and move there, slowly rebuilding your supporter (and income!) base?
They've already shown that they're capable of this. They were comfortable taking money for incest content and I can only imagine that another party forced them to stop. They didn't grandfather clause these projects, they forced those authors to stop. Oh, and they didn't refund anything to supporters.
That last thing is something that Patreon will get burned on. If they're only a middleman, they shouldn't impose any rules other by law enforcement. But right now, they're putting themselves as the shop front and you're doing business with Patreon, not through them. And that makes them liable for what they do.
Since Patreon had no problem taking money from EU citizens, they're forced to obey certain EU directives, and they may be beholden to EU courts. If they force a project to be taken down, supporters can build a case against Patreon and force them to refund their pledges. And an EU court could order them to do so -- or shut them out from EU if they don't.
The only problem is, nobody will take this particular matter to court publicly (no such thing as John Doe in EU law).
This isn't only the hand that feeds me. It's the hand that feeds you folks too. We wouldn't be able to make our games if not for Patreon. They're not hypocrites. They're business people who are helping these games get made. I'm not biting that hand, and you shouldn't either.
If that hand decides to smack you, it will, you never need to bite it.
I disagree that they're not hypocrites. When they were new, they had no problems accepting some content that didn't sit well with them. Now that they grew big enough and are comfortable taking down some content, just wait for them to extend this. It's Embrace, Extend, Extinguish 2.0.
MaxCarna wrote:yahoo wrote:Oh, and just for the record, you should fully expect Patreon to expand their list of restricted content. Next up, furries, BDSM, and any hint of less than 150% consensual sex.
Honestly that it was what bothered at first, the rule change. You put a lot of effort and time on a project and suddenly the portal that make it viable just change a rule and you have to shutdown. Nothing stop them from expand their restrictions until the point that hits us.
Exactly the point I was making. I just hope people are wise enough to stop using Patreon and an alternative will come up before that actually happens.
Incest is definitely condemned on western culture, but I didn't image it was considered crime, especially in a country supposed to be more progressed. It wasn't in my country. But to know this give me hope that other non criminal content won't be banned so soon.
It's rightly condemned, but is being challenged in some places (Canada comes to mind). Incest itself is not illegal, they can't arrest you for the act of having sex with your relative. You cannot formalize a legal union with a relative, though, and any such relationship would likely come under scrutiny to determine if both parties fully consented and that there wasn't any coercion or manipulation due to reliance or familiarity.
If it is illegal they should banned since the begin, really is the rule change that throws a cloud of doubts on the air. Now is just wait things settle down.
I think I should have pointed this out, too. Yeah, they're waiting to see the fallout, and if they can get away with this. If they do, and I imagine they will, they'll do it again for anything that doesn't sit well with them.
But I can not help pointing out that they do not do this philanthropically, it's a paid service and they profit from it, quite a lot.
I can't help to see the hypocrisy in it. They accepted and processed a lot of money for some of those projects already. It's not like they'll be refunding any of it any time soon.