VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

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VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby kessie8dn » Thu, 16Oct20 15:07

I was about to click "Complete" on the transaction to join the Offsite area when I noticed I was signing up for continual monthly renewal. I backed out so I could start from scratch and found they no longer offer a "one-off" 30 day membership, only the one that renews until you cancel it.

I've never trusted this option - and besides new games aren't released frequently enough to suggest a continuous monthly contribution would be value for money, so Chaotic's lost a customer here.

I also think the way this has been introduced is pretty sneaky, seeing as the first option is usually the one-off 30 days, so I wanted to bring this to your attention in case anyone is caught out.

I've never thought much of Chaotic's treatment of his customers, so I'm not particularly surprised. Of course he's entitled to try to charge whatever he likes, but to try to slip this into the small print is low, even by his standards.
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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby Ripe » Thu, 16Oct20 21:11

Agreed... like you, I don't trust all those cancel later payment plans but unfortunately I noticed too late that it's no longer one month only payment. I did canceled my subscription through Epoch but it remains to be seen if it will work or if it will require some additional action.
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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby EscapeEvade » Fri, 16Oct21 00:18

Huh? I thought it's been that way for a very long time.

I always cancel my subscription a week or so after I re-up. I don't maintain a constant subscription to Chaotic's site, but I do generally get one each time he releases a new game. I am waiting right now even though Anna is out because it sounds like Academy Part III and the next Chaotic game will be released relatively soon, so I'd get 3 games at once.
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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby fsunolez75 » Fri, 16Oct21 04:35

EscapeEvade wrote:Huh? I thought it's been that way for a very long time.


I thought the same thing too. It's what I've been doing on VDG for couple years now.. I'll subscribe for a month, and then immediately cancel the subscription so I don't later forget about it. Have never had a problem.
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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby Chaotic_VDG » Fri, 16Oct21 13:17

Yeah, It's been that way for nearly 2 years.

I also don't consider it sneaky as the fee is very clearly stated in large letters at the top of the page as soon as you press join, not the 'small print' as you suggest. It is also clearly stated that you can cancel at any time, and the instructions on how to do so are easily found in the members section and easy to follow.

Also, what about the treatment of my customers concerns you? Any feedback I get always seems to be overwhelmingly positive.
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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby ironyemcee » Fri, 16Oct21 14:58

I used to be a fan of VDG until this month. I've visited the site almost daily (since it's creation 6rs ago) to check for new content normally to find myself disappointed. I've subscribed to a membership now on 3 different occurrences (the last time is nearing the end of my 30day membership now). The 1st time was about 5yrs ago, 1x last year, & this current paid subscription will be my last. I will agree with Chaotic that the auto-renewal has been there for a couple years now but I agree with everyone else who thinks that sucks. I also agree with those who believe the treatment that Chaotic provides to his customers sucks as well.
The reason the membership renewal is a rip-off is simple. There isn't enough new content added to make it worthwhile to revisit after you've played & downloaded the games in the 1st 30days. In 6yrs there have been 37games added. That's an average of 1 game every 2months most of which were free. Many of those were extremely short, easy, & pretty low on the desire to play again ranking. That is not to take away from the fact that Chaotic is still a creative genius in some regards b/c most of the games are very intriguing the first time & of course the replay factor & quality have grown as he has grown as an artist. Nevertheless, I feel like the membership is priced way to high unless it a person is visiting for the 1st time & has not played any of the games before. For anyone who has previously had a membership, been a follower/fan, & has played the majority of games before it's a rip off. A more realistic fee would be $9.99 1x charge for 30days without auto-renewal.
To respond to Chaotic's comment:
"Also, what about the treatment of my customers concerns you? Any feedback I get always seems to be overwhelmingly positive."

I've only had to deal directly with Chaotic on 3 occasions & all have ended with me smh & feeling unappreciated as a customer. The most recent one was due to his 2 newest games not completing downloads for many people (mentioned on this very forum). I had no issues downloading any of the other games the same day but after 7 times of trying to download Anna & Academy Part 2 both downloads kept failing after getting near the half way mark. I emailed customer support & he responded in his normal condescending deflective way by stating it's not "everyone" experiencing & issue (although many on this forum had the same issue),try using download manager, & (without admitting is could be something on his server's end) that he would look into resizing Anna. I work in IT/Networking tech support & have done so for more than a decade & but it doesn't take an expert to realize if customers can download 10 of your other games by clicking on the download link & have no issues, the clearly you may want to look into it. However, the next day he resolved whatever this issue was & I had no problem. He just never admitted error, apologized, or of course compensated me for my $20 I spent to play the only 3games of his I hadn't played yet. On both of the other occasions that were a couple years ago, I simply provided feedback on glitches on 2 games to which he again became defensive, deflective, & condescending like it was my fault. I think the reason he believes feedback is overwhelmingly positive is because he doesn't realize how customer service works. For every 1 person that has a complaint, there are hundreds of others that didn't say anything & just won't due business with you. So as for me, I'm done with VDG unless the game is free. So if Chaotic cares about losing a fan of 6yrs & doesn't want to see it happen again, maybe he'll change some things.
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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby Chaotic_VDG » Fri, 16Oct21 16:14

I'm not sure how to respond to that, but I'll do what I can.

ironyemcee wrote: The reason the membership renewal is a rip-off is simple. There isn't enough new content added to make it worthwhile to revisit after you've played & downloaded the games in the 1st 30days.


Then don't. Many just sign up for a month then cancel straight away. It's normal and I completely expect it.

ironyemcee wrote:The most recent one was due to his 2 newest games not completing downloads for many people (mentioned on this very forum). I had no issues downloading any of the other games the same day but after 7 times of trying to download Anna & Academy Part 2 both downloads kept failing after getting near the half way mark. I emailed customer support & he responded in his normal condescending deflective way by stating it's not "everyone" experiencing & issue (although many on this forum had the same issue),try using download manager, & (without admitting is could be something on his server's end) that he would look into resizing Anna..


I remember you and your email. I still have a copy of it. It was a little demanding and not phrased very pleasantly. I gave you some suggestions as to how you could solve it. And, yes, I did correct your "It is failing on your server end & went online to the Sharks Lagoon forum & found this is happening for everyone.", but I stand by it. You were overgeneralizing the extent of the issue to make it appear more dramatic. Exactly one person on this forum (lucky loser) had stated the problem and I was working solutions to fix it.

ironyemcee wrote:I simply provided feedback on glitches on 2 games to which he again became defensive, deflective, & condescending like it was my fault.


Do you have records of these? My emails folder doesn't go back that far. It seems very odd for me to act like if you were simply reporting bugs.

If I have offended you in some way, I do sincerely apologize.
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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby EscapeEvade » Sat, 16Oct22 03:20

I cannot remember a time I've ever had a problem downloading a game from the VDG site, and I've been patronizing it for many years now.
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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby ironyemcee » Sat, 16Oct22 05:14

Smh. I sincerely hope you change so that you & your business ventures may prosper to their fullest potential. Until the day you set your ego to the side & learn some real customer service, your success will be as limited as your empathy.
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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby tlaero » Sat, 16Oct22 07:11

ironyemcee wrote: I feel like the membership is priced way to high unless it a person is visiting for the 1st time & has not played any of the games before. For anyone who has previously had a membership, been a follower/fan, & has played the majority of games before it's a rip off. A more realistic fee would be $9.99 1x charge for 30days without auto-renewal.


I don't follow this. A rip off is when you get less than you thought you were going to get. Like if you signed up for 17 games and only got 5, etc. If you know how many games have been released since the last time you subscribed, and you know the general quality of a given game because you've subscribed in the past, don't you know how long to wait until the amount of new content you'd get is worth $20 to you?

You said $10 is more realistic. If you just wait twice as long to subscribe, wouldn't you effectively be paying the amount you want? Chaotic doesn't seem to have any restrictions on how long you wait between subscriptions. If the number of games you get in 2 years isn't worth $20, wait 4 years. Problem solved.

ironyemcee wrote: I work in IT/Networking tech support & have done so for more than a decade & but it doesn't take an expert to realize if customers can download 10 of your other games by clicking on the download link & have no issues, the clearly you may want to look into it.


It's probably the case that you're a better IT guy than Chaotic is. After all, you're a professional IT guy, and he's an erotic games writer. So it's kind of weird that you're so angry at him for being a better IT guy than he is. And, if I understood you correctly, you were able to download the games the next day, before your subscription ran out. What kind of compensation did you think that warranted? I'd understand if your subscription ran out while you were unable to download a game, you'd probably be entitled to more time to get the games. But it's not like you're really paying for minutes here. You're paying for the right to download games. And you were able to download the games. Your anger seems ... misplaced.

It almost feels like you think he's a large corporation with fully funded IT and customer service departments. He's not. He's a guy.

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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby muttdoggy » Sat, 16Oct22 07:36

I've gotten memberships off and on to VDG before. Never had an issue with a game and I did put down a couple bug reports on the blogs and those got fixed given time. You have to understand that this is now 3 guys with lives of their own. Their first priority is making the games they put out and that's time spent several ways.. First you come up with some ideas and youre doing notes to come up with a sketch of what you want. Then you're onto the storyboards writing scenes out and trying to figure out all the pictures that you'd need to make. Now your're on to making and rendering 3D pictures and then doing post processing if needed. Next, you've gotta be doing html programming while making sure you're doing the best you can to get the commands and names right. After all that craziness, you've gotta go back over it and test it to make sure you've got something resembling a game. Now you gotta add website maintenance, taking time to read countless emails, blogs, etc. Wait! Did I mention they've got lives of their own.. homes, cars, bills, families, etc? You'd be at your wit's end!
Here's my 2 cent's worth.. if you've got time to complain, you've also got time to help them out, too. We're all busy and we need to help each other out!
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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby Maurice » Sat, 16Oct22 08:49

tlaero wrote:I don't follow this. A rip off is when you get less than you thought you were going to get. Like if you signed up for 17 games and only got 5, etc. If you know how many games have been released since the last time you subscribed, and you know the general quality of a given game because you've subscribed in the past, don't you know how long to wait until the amount of new content you'd get is worth $20 to you?

You said $10 is more realistic. If you just wait twice as long to subscribe, wouldn't you effectively be paying the amount you want? Chaotic doesn't seem to have any restrictions on how long you wait between subscriptions. If the number of games you get in 2 years isn't worth $20, wait 4 years. Problem solved.


This isn't exactly true.

The (perceived) value of a game decreases over time.

So a price of $ 20 to play a game now may be perceived as fair.
A price of $ 20 to play that very same game tomorrow may not.

~

Also any system where you continue doing things automatically unless action is taken by you is more bureaucratic than a system where you do things only once unless action is taken.

I am of the opinion that bureaucratic systems tend to be on the more user unfriendly side.

~

Having said that I choose to believe that Chaotic puts out paid content to enable him to put out free content. And I consider that very userfriendly and generous in general.

So I would advocate giving Chaotic some slack when encountering something unconvenient.
When you are paying Chaotic you are not only paying to play the game you want to play, but also for all the players who (want to) play the free games.
So for anyone reading this who subscribed to Chaotic (at and for any time), you have my sincere thanks.

In general try to phrase your criticism as a suggestion in stead of a demand (or outrage).
If your help (criticism) goes by unnoticed try to keep in mind that help that is forced upon people rarely is perceived as help (for a very long time).

~

regards to all reading this and all participating in the discussion,

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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby PinkVendeta » Sat, 16Oct22 08:51

Should move this to the beach so everyone can see it and have a good old chat about it, as it is not really about a game per say.

As for what he is talking about, sadly this is the world we live in now, when You are being asked to pay money for a game to play it, a certain % of paying customers do not care that it is 3 people with lives, nor do they care how long the game takes to make and what it involves beginning, middle and end to finished product, it becomes commercial weather the maker intended it to be or not, and the game becomes a product, which people are paying for, which then makes the customer right always, even when they are wrong or partly wrong, thus is the nature of product vs money vs customers.

I myself do not take any of the money that Arnii games makes, I always told Arnii when he offered numerous times, that, I do not need the money and all I do for Arnii all over the world on the net promoting our games, our Artwork and Arnii himself, I do for the love of the games, the love of the Artwork and because I care for Arnii.

I told Arnii keep the money, put it toward a bigger better graphics based monster of a computer, buy the best DAZ stuff, and keep the remainder for himself, he deserves it, so by me not taking 1 cent of 1 dollar, 1 cent of 1 euro, 1 penny of 1 pound, it allows me to have a say in such debates as this without me being compromised at all.

Once money enters into adult games meaning people paying for a product, their say in said product goes from nothing to 100% as they are now a paying customer and weather or not we like it, they do not have to care that it is 1 sole guy, 3 guys, nor do they have to care that the makers have lives, as we all do.

Money complicates every product always and no matter how close to perfect some products are, You will never be able to please everyone out there, no matter how hard You may try or how hard You may seem to be trying, this is the nature of money to play a game which in turn becomes a commercial product.
I Am Not speaking From Experience - I Just Have A Vivid Imagination

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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby Mortze » Sat, 16Oct22 15:36

I don't understand this line of complaints.
This kind of sites, like Chaotic's, are made on the premise that any member buying a subscription knows what's he is acquiring. It is a monthly subscription, charged every month, unless the member says otherwise. This is important because the member has always the choice of canceling his subscription anytime he wants. That's announced in the site, the member knows it. And that's also a possibility the site owner knows and accepts fully.
The site puts at the member disposal ALL the content there is, to play AND TO DOWNLOAD. This means that the member can pay a month subscription, get ALL the content, cancel and never come back again. When you say it's a rip-off, I say instead that it is a bargain. You get all the previous content for the price of one month only. Consider all the work Chaotic has put, all these yers, in making all the games that you acquire in one month only.

This is the sum of the deal. Period. You got ALL the content for 20$. Pretty cheap in my opinion.

Now, there is the option to keep being monthly charged 20$ and not getting new content. That's totally optional for the customer. If he chooses to do so he can't complain on what he deliberately and knowingly agreed on. That's hipocrisy at the least.

About the replayability of the games. When you purchase a DVD you won't enjoy watching it lot of times like you did the first time. Same for the games.

It makes me such a confusion when people DO KNOW what they pay for and still come to claim for more. When they don't get it they think they own the right to demand from the other party. They don't. The terms were clear from the start.

There hasn't been any massive complains about Chaotic's site downloading capabilities. I sure never had any issue, and here on Shark's forum I never saw any great complaints, save from isolated ones. A few doesn't make the generality as you say. If there was a serious issue with downloadings it would be known by now and Chaotic would be the first in line to try to solve them. It's his business after all.

The same could be said about his attention to members. I never had but cordial and respectfull conversations with Chaotic. His interventions on Shark's forum have always been respectfull. I ain't saying that he was or wasn't respectfull in this particular case. I'm just saying that it isn't the norm as a lone testemony might influence.

You complain about Chaotic's policies of business regarding his site and subscriptions but I can't avoid to think that Chaotic follows the same policy as 90%+ of other porn sites out there (not saying his is a porn site). There is always a monthly (with options to pay several months upfront with discounts) subscription, cancelled at will and anytime but the member, where ALL of the content gets available immediately. I'm surely not the only one that has paid a month subscription, spent hours, or several days, downloading all the content, and cancelled the next month when I got all I needed. It's the business. It's how it works everywhere. Chaotic knows it, and I'm pretty sure his subscribers know it too.

And about the bugs, I will just point out that if EA, Rockstar, Bioware, etc, release games with bugs, then a lone guy like Chaotic is ALLOWED (and expected) to release any bugged game he wants.

You'll also tell me that there isn't any motivation in keeping paying 20$/month after enjoying all the content he has on the site. Well, save for the patronage that it implies, allowing Chaotic to keep making his games, and not having to do something else to pay for his bills, I think that it's reasonable to think like that. If you want to keep paying him for him to invest in more games, and for him to release free games to the masses that can't, or won't, pay monthly like you do, then it's great. If you don't want that, it's ok too. Drop out. You'll join the masses and wait for Chaotic to have the KINDNESS and GENEROSITY of releasing free games.

Alternatively there could be another commercial system? It could. Selling each game individually, without subscription, 5$ or 10$ a game. But that is a policy that Chaotic perhaps don't want to pursue, for ethical or moral reasons or just because it implies a more complex administration of the site. You just got to respect his choice.
But I would remind that this system would also imply that you'd have to pay 5$ for EACH game on the site. I don't know how many exactly but I know there is a lot of them made by Chaotic all these years. If you wanted 20 games that would cost you 100$, the equivalent of 5 months subscription with the actual system.

There isn't any reasonability in complaining when you know and accept how it will work out from the start. Chaotic never obscured information. He never promised something he didn't delivered.
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Re: VDG-OFFSITE ALERT

Postby Ripe » Sat, 16Oct22 16:30

Mortze wrote:It is a monthly subscription, charged every month, unless the member says otherwise.

In case of Chaotic's site that is only true for about a year or so... for almost 10 years when you'd sign up for his site you would get a choice between monthly renewable subscription and a "one-off" one month subscription.
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