Games with teens - In favor or not?

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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby yahoo » Wed, 16May25 09:20

Taylor Strutt wrote:Many games have a place where you insert a name, which the game then uses in conversations to make it more personal. There should be a way to do something similar with age. For example, at the front of the game it asks the player to put in the minimum age a character can be (for example 18). Then the game uses that age as the benchmark but can add years for other characters (for example input age+2 becomes 18 + 2= 20). You could even add a disclaimer on the "input age" screen to warn players to keep it above age of consent for their area. This way you could create the game you want without really sacrificing too much, yet it is up to the player to choose how young a characters are, and the only way the game breaks local laws is if the player chooses to do so, not due to the game itself.

Obviously this idea may be a bit of a cop out to your question, but it hopefully satisfies both sides. The trouble with this idea is that it would require more coding, some of the wording would need to be open ended to cover multiple ages, and yes a person could go even younger than you intended.

Goblinboy's School Dreams had this. In short, it doesn't work, or is too much work to do correctly.
Some people will put minimum age at 13, others at 18. Dialogues completely fail -- something completely appropriate for a 13-year old to say becomes immature in the mouth of an 18-year old. Conversely, a particularly insightful, but still believable, comment by an 18-year old will not work with a 13-year old.
Ultimately, it's the vision of the author. But I stick to my earlier comment. A visual novel, interactive fiction, etc., only works if it's interesting. If there's dialogue to follow, if there's a story, if the characters are interesting and go through development.
Teenagers are only interesting if they're family -- kids, grandkids, nephews/nieces, etc., or if you're teaching them. Otherwise, they're annoying. They're stupid, obnoxious, arrogant and entitled. They can't hold a conversation, and have zero insight into anything. This may be harsh, but I was a teenager, and I was all that (hell, I still am, just slightly less so). At the time I also thought it was unfair I had frequent arguments because "I was right" (in most cases I wasn't). Yes, there are uncannily mature teenagers. But not among the angsty ones, not among the hipsters, not among the rich kids. Those mature ones will tend to understand that they need to focus on studying and that sex can wait for the right person. Sex implies maturity, but there's no direct causation (i.e., having sex doesn't mean you're mature, and being mature doesn't mean you need to have sex).
I don't see why adult games have to be about teens. I understand how teens are typically seen as sexier, although I don't see much of a difference between a 19 and 25 year olds.
Now get off my lawn.
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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby Greebo » Wed, 16May25 16:38

Well said, yahoo, you've nailed it! [img]images/icones/icon7.gif[/img]
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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby Taylor Strutt » Thu, 16May26 04:12

yahoo wrote:Goblinboy's School Dreams had this. In short, it doesn't work, or is too much work to do correctly.Some people will put minimum age at 13, others at 18. Dialogues completely fail -- something completely appropriate for a 13-year old to say becomes immature in the mouth of an 18-year old. Conversely, a particularly insightful, but still believable, comment by an 18-year old will not work with a 13-year old.


I see your point completely and you are probably right. I guess I was thinking too hard for a way to make it work, not thinking out how well it would work. You're right that it would be way too difficult to come up with quality characters and dialog that could fit those different ages correctly. The interaction between a 14 f and a 16 year old m is completely different than that of an 18 f and 20 year old m, so while technically it might work... the characters would have to be written too shallow for the game to be any good. Good call!
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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby john milton » Thu, 16May26 21:28

Mortze wrote:
PinkVendeta wrote:So, the question is: is it worth it? What is to be gained by making your characters specifically underage, in balance with what really could be lost? Write me something as insightful and inspiring as Lolita and I will say it was worth the risk that some psycho who would not have gone over the edge otherwise, goes over the edge. But don't write it in complete ignorance, refusing to admit to yourself that there can be terrible consequences. Don't be willingly ignorant. Don't stick your head in the sand.

Of course it might be worth it. Of course there could be something to gain. When you're writing a story that HAS to envolve minors it's supposed to be worth it. I only consider those writers who write stories envolving minors with substance, not those who only make games/manga/hentai/drawings/literature involving minors for the sake of satisfying the author or the audience animalistic fantasies disregarding the content of the support of the art.
I could make a 100 pics story of a teenage couple fucking, or of a teenage schoolgirl being raped in the subway. That's easy to do. But adding content, substance and good material to those 2 premises is another thing.
A schoolgirl being raped in the subway could either be bad hentai or a sad and dramatic story. The difference between both is that the first has a sole purpose of feeding animalistic sexual fantasies. The second could tell so much more. What a sad story could be written about that girl, that goes home broken and soiled, and changes from the A-grade schoolgirl to a depressed and suicidal girl.
Yeah, nothing fun or sexy here. But there is a story told here. A story about a victim. That's reality. Would a sick mind be amused and inspired to go take the subway and try to catch young girls? Well, that's totally beyond the motive of the creator of such story. Creators should totally be responsible for the content they produce but solely in the measure of the idea or message they want to pass through their art.
If demented people interpret the message in ways entirelly diferent that can't be on the artist.
There is responsability for the artist in defining what message, what theme and mood he wants to portray.

So much games out there envolving cheating on the wife, having sex with multiple partners, without any responsability whatsoever. In real life such behaviour might destroy many lifes, either the cheated partner, children, etc...
But a story portraying 2 teenagers discovering sex, in a mutual, respectfull, genuine process, is considered a dangerous theme for creators. And that's totally moronic in my most humble opinion. The message of a respectfull sexual experience seems to be irrelevant. The nostalgy felt by the reader of the story seems irrelevant. The only detail that matters is the age of the characters in the story. Again, that's hipocrit.

Portraying sexual relationships between teenagers isn't glorifying it. It happens in real life. As we speak teenagers are having sex, discovering it, experiencing it, either we like it or not, either it happened when we were their age or not. It's life. And it's a beautiful part of life. Why shouldn't we portray it (in a digital medium where no real person is envolved)?
But having war movies, action movies, horror movies, disaster movies, where a person's life is meaningless, because they are either bad guys or victims, is totally acceptable, it seems.
Buying guns to protect our lawn is ok, but watching a comic with two 14 yo kids having sex is utterly sick. Something is wrong with our values then.

Artistic freedom should be a reality. Bus as with everything in life, the artist should be responsible for the message he gives.


I have to say that from a merely aesthetic point of view I do not enjoy seeing teens in erotic games, that is just because my personal tastes and probably because a lack of fantasies with these kind of setting.

However, I’m grateful to Mortze for his pointing out these critical themes which, in my opinion deserve and need to be discussed. I read was written before and personally I agree with Mortze’s skepticism.
There is a deep difference between what art is and what is nothing more than material to fap. What I think makes these two things so different is that art has a meaning, art tells something; in other words, in my opinion, if there’s a message then it is worth to be shared (I’m not saying that it has to be immune to critique).

The theme that was called into question in the last posts of this thread is related to the nature of art and how art affects the “audience”.
Aristotle thought that art lead to a catharsis, but I have no intention to bother you with philosophy.
But art is one of the peak of the human attitude toward the world and ourselves, and refusing even to discuss about something that can be seen as provocative is nothing more than censorship, and I believe it just shows a great immaturity.

Teen age is an extremely interesting phase of life to explore, and sex is one of it’s main themes. I think that art in general, and even erotic art (if you make this distinction, I personally do not) has all the rights to having a say.

As far as art’s effect on people, I think that each of our action could cause a catastrophe in the future; if you want to confer a moral value to an action then you should be considering the intention that moved you.
Therefore, I support the idea that art should not be judge by the effect it provokes, but by the message that the author wanted to express.
I hope I could make me understood clearly enough, and that this post didn't result in being too boring [img]images/icones/icon10.gif[/img].

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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby Paladox » Sun, 16Sep18 07:46

I have played quite a few hentai / adult games with underage characters in them.
It's never really bothered me, and certainly doesn't make me want the real thing.
It's just fantasy, and I really don't understand why anyone would want to hurt / abuse an actual child (and yes I consider <18 a child) in this way.

Anyway, it's not that I like the idea of the character being young. I tend to prefer petite women with small breasts, and often these games will have really young girls as the only characters with the body type that I prefer. The other characters might only be a few years older, but will often have breasts the size of watermelons or even bigger.

I am currently making a game myself, and there will be story elements where underage characters are raped (for story/plot purposes). I have seen so many Hollywood movies where they make it seem like teen sex is OK, that I thought it might be OK to show one instance of this.

Well that was my thinking in the past, and I have since changed my mind and restricted any visual sex to 18+ characters only. The underage stuff will only be told about or implied. It's important to the plot and character development or I wouldn't have it at all.

The bottom line is that I think it's a much safer route to restrict explicit sex in your games to 18+ characters.
Not only for yourself and your own country's laws, but also for others that want to play your game.
I'm currently making a completely free game called The Fairy, The Succubus, and The Abyss.
It's an adult game with sprite sex, made with RMVX.
Feel free to ask me if you want to find out more, or you could just google it. :D
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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby Slayer991 » Sat, 16Oct08 08:03

Mortze wrote:
tlaero wrote:Some of the most highly regarded AIF games, especially those written by Christopher Cole and Goblin Boy, take place in high school with sub-18 characters. I assume there's a nostalgic aspect to the popularity of these games, since many people have their first sexual experiences in high school. There's probably a minor taboo aspect to them too, since sub-18 is frowned upon, but few people think consensual sexual behavior between high school seniors is terrible (except when their own kids are doing it :-).

I think the guideline you should explore is around why the game has sex with a 15 year old. If it's because of the environment (ie you want to tell a story that takes place in high school), it's probably better than if it's because of the age. In other words, if the goal is to have a 15 year old character, then you might question your motives. What's so important about this character being 15? Is it simply because you want an under age character? That would be pretty questionable. However, if the environment means that the character needs to be 15, a la it takes place in a high school, then there's more leeway.

I think you should ask yourself this. "Is there a reasonable and believable way to do this story with an 18 year old instead of a 15 year old?" If the answer is "no," then you're probably doing it for story reasons, and it's probably okay. If the answer is "yes," then you really need to reflect on why you want a 15 year old in your game.


Everything you said makes perfect good sense, and I agree with that all. But if I'd want to write a story about a young teacher getting hired in an exclusive girls boarding school I can't have many options there besides:
1/ having him only date adult women, like other teachers;
2/ not having him date anyone at all;
3/ think about another game


Maybe if there were more student-teacher games...teachers wouldn't be actually sleeping with high school students!

I think Tlaero is spot on. For most of us, games set in high school remind us of our youth...first love, losing our virginity, etc. That being said, game authors would be naive to think that some people (pedophiles) won't see games set in high school in a different light than the majority. Pusooy's work (and I'm not denigrating his work, just providing an example) is a good example as his characters always look young (early high school) and act naive (at least at the beginning) without explicitly stating their ages.

So really, it's up to the author to determine how they want to create their characters knowing that if they make them look too young, some pedophile will be getting off on it. It's a fine line....but yeah, if you wanted to author a game as a teacher in an all-girls boarding school, I'd play it simply because it's harmless fantasy so long as the story is entertaining. Besides, I'm neither a teacher nor a pedophile. :D
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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby Mortze » Sat, 16Oct08 16:48

Slayer991 wrote:Maybe if there were more student-teacher games...teachers wouldn't be actually sleeping with high school students!

I think Tlaero is spot on. For most of us, games set in high school remind us of our youth...first love, losing our virginity, etc. That being said, game authors would be naive to think that some people (pedophiles) won't see games set in high school in a different light than the majority. Pusooy's work (and I'm not denigrating his work, just providing an example) is a good example as his characters always look young (early high school) and act naive (at least at the beginning) without explicitly stating their ages.

So really, it's up to the author to determine how they want to create their characters knowing that if they make them look too young, some pedophile will be getting off on it. It's a fine line....but yeah, if you wanted to author a game as a teacher in an all-girls boarding school, I'd play it simply because it's harmless fantasy so long as the story is entertaining. Besides, I'm neither a teacher nor a pedophile.


Thank you for your insight which I respect.

But I'll state again that I can't and won't feel responsible if anyone with a psychological instability gets hipped because he played a game of mine, when my game has a totally different message (where there is respect for the other's freewill). Like I said, I will never make a game where there is any kind of abuse, and any pedophile's victim suffers from abuse, physical, emotional or psychological.
I don't go with the opinion that "Maybe if there were more student-teacher games...teachers wouldn't be actually sleeping with high school students!". I think it's a very narrow view. Some people believed that playing RPGs in the basement or playing violent videogames where the cause of mental instability, or the work of the devil, when, in reality, people play those games to have fun, to escape from their lifes for a moment.
I stand that the author responsibility is in the message he sends with his art. If deranged people get another message that can't be the author's fault. Those people will interpret wrongly any other message out there.
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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby Slayer991 » Sun, 16Oct09 09:44

Mortze wrote:
Slayer991 wrote:Maybe if there were more student-teacher games...teachers wouldn't be actually sleeping with high school students!

I think Tlaero is spot on. For most of us, games set in high school remind us of our youth...first love, losing our virginity, etc. That being said, game authors would be naive to think that some people (pedophiles) won't see games set in high school in a different light than the majority. Pusooy's work (and I'm not denigrating his work, just providing an example) is a good example as his characters always look young (early high school) and act naive (at least at the beginning) without explicitly stating their ages.

So really, it's up to the author to determine how they want to create their characters knowing that if they make them look too young, some pedophile will be getting off on it. It's a fine line....but yeah, if you wanted to author a game as a teacher in an all-girls boarding school, I'd play it simply because it's harmless fantasy so long as the story is entertaining. Besides, I'm neither a teacher nor a pedophile.


Thank you for your insight which I respect.

But I'll state again that I can't and won't feel responsible if anyone with a psychological instability gets hipped because he played a game of mine, when my game has a totally different message (where there is respect for the other's freewill). Like I said, I will never make a game where there is any kind of abuse, and any pedophile's victim suffers from abuse, physical, emotional or psychological.
I don't go with the opinion that "Maybe if there were more student-teacher games...teachers wouldn't be actually sleeping with high school students!". I think it's a very narrow view. Some people believed that playing RPGs in the basement or playing violent videogames where the cause of mental instability, or the work of the devil, when, in reality, people play those games to have fun, to escape from their lifes for a moment.
I stand that the author responsibility is in the message he sends with his art. If deranged people get another message that can't be the author's fault. Those people will interpret wrongly any other message out there.


I'm sorry if you took my post the wrong way or if I wasn't clear. I wasn't stating that you (or any other author) had to take responsibility or feel any guilt for your art. I wasn't being judgmental either as that would be rather hypocritical since I play those games (and I loved your idea of a teacher at an all-girls boarding school). I was merely stating that there is an audience out there that will appreciate such works in a different way from the majority. My point is that the only person that needs to be good with your art is you as the author. Same is true of any artist or game author.
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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby HeyChief » Tue, 16Oct11 18:13

Look folks, it is a game! If you do not like some part of a game, then you have the choice of not playing it. It is called free choice, let it be.
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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby String » Mon, 16Oct31 20:56

I have to admit the idea appeals to me. After all its just a story and no real people are involved. I say just write it any way you want and just don't mention age and let people draw their own conclusion from the story line.
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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby _Inerfa » Mon, 16Nov21 16:13

I agree with Mortze, besides some people will always find ways to interpret things in different ways than you intended.
I believe that this is not something you should take into account, as this limits your artistic freedom (without deliberatly trying to insult/provoke certain groups of course).

I guess it all boils down to personal preference, I for once am more attracted to more mature, curvier women :)
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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby bd2021 » Tue, 16Dec20 11:09

I know this is an older thread, but I thought this should be cleared up.

Skelaturi wrote:
Jack_Smythe wrote:Like others have said, it is a game and therefore is fantasy. There is no law, in the US anyway, that I believe it is illegal to portray minors having sex in a fantasy setting. The laws pertain to real people.

Ehh for the US i believe there is, for Europe its debatable. Look at the Protect Act of 2003 as long as its not obscene

The actual US law still protects virtual pornographic images of minors given certain stipulations, namely:
"A crime is committed only when the speaker believes or intends the listener to believe that the subject of the proposed transaction depicts real children. It is simply not true that this means “a protected category of expression [will] inevitably be suppressed,” post, at 13. Simulated child pornography will be as available as ever, so long as it is offered and sought as such, and not as real child pornography."
- US v. Williams (2008).

As Mortze says (and the SCOTUS agrees) computer generated graphics, so long as they are wholly computer generated (not based on real people) harm no one. US law also has an ill defined "obscenity" clause, but that's a whole different debate.

Also for those bringing up the idea that virtual pornography would cause people to act out their urges in real life, studies show that legalization of pornography does not increase (and generally decreases) rates of violent crimes and sex crimes (this includes decreases in child sex abuse when child pornography is legally available).
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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby Issho » Sat, 17Apr08 01:37

I wanted to bring this topic back to the top, because I couldn´t find a clear answer on google. Is it prohibited to use Childs (at least of an age of 15, 16) in renders, which have intercourse with others? Is there a clear, legal answer to that?
I noticed on many occasions, that artists mentioned an age of 18 years on their figures, which clearly wasn´t true just by looking at them.
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Re: Games with teens - In favor or not?

Postby Greyelf » Sat, 17Apr08 21:20

Issho wrote:Is there a clear, legal answer to that?
No, because laws related to this subject (or any subject at all) can vary between legal regions (assuming that the legal region has a related law at all).
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