Incest

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Re: Incest

Postby Mortze » Sat, 15Aug15 23:05

tlaero wrote:It's unfortunate that parent-child is named the same thing as sibling-sibling. Even if biology and recessive genes didn't play a role, parent-child is horrific and bad. Anything involving sex with children, related or not, is the worst of the worst, no question. But, after that, things get a little muddy.


Let's not forget variants, where a 30 year old has consensual sex with her 50 year old father. Weird, shocking perhaps, but not as horrific as if the daughter was a minor.

tlaero wrote:Consensual sex between adult age siblings has thousands of years of biology weighing against it, I get that, but it seems less bad to me than non-consensual sex between adults (rape). I guess that's society vs biology speaking though. I wonder if people had to rate things from "bad" to "more bad," where rape vs consensual adult sibling incest would compare. And I wonder if it would vary from culture to culture and across genders.


I understand the question of biology. That somehow dictates the general society's repugnance to siblings intercourse. This may eventually lead to abnormalities. Nature does not accept gene mixing between people who share the same genes. Nature wants diversity. Societies have fade because they didn't understood that incest would lead to their desmise.
But in my opinion, sex without reproduction, between two siblings, with no cohertion at all, leads to a no victim situation, to a no abstract evil result. There is no material wrong done. The world would not change. No harm done to anyone.
I think there are far worse things that are accepted by society, even civilized society. I think there is more evil done in apathy for the homeless, and the ederly, that in what may happen in a guy's room with her sister.
I think the world needs to rethink its prespective on what is right and wrong.
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Re: Incest

Postby saolo996 » Mon, 15Aug17 14:24

Mortze wrote:
tlaero wrote:It's unfortunate that parent-child is named the same thing as sibling-sibling. Even if biology and recessive genes didn't play a role, parent-child is horrific and bad. Anything involving sex with children, related or not, is the worst of the worst, no question. But, after that, things get a little muddy.


Let's not forget variants, where a 30 year old has consensual sex with her 50 year old father. Weird, shocking perhaps, but not as horrific as if the daughter was a minor.

I'd say not as horrific as if she's not fully aware of what it's going to happen, or not as horrific as when there is no equality in what brings two people in having sex. (and clearly if the difference in age is remarkable and one of the two is 18 or 20 I would hardly consider it as "consensual sex".)
I mean... To blackmail someone to have sex to me is far away worse than to hear about two consenting adults have had sex, even if relatives, but It seems to me that blackmailing is tolerate, if not sometimes appreciated, while consensual sex between relatives ways less.

Mortze wrote:
tlaero wrote:Consensual sex between adult age siblings has thousands of years of biology weighing against it, I get that, but it seems less bad to me than non-consensual sex between adults (rape). I guess that's society vs biology speaking though. I wonder if people had to rate things from "bad" to "more bad," where rape vs consensual adult sibling incest would compare. And I wonder if it would vary from culture to culture and across genders.


I understand the question of biology. That somehow dictates the general society's repugnance to siblings intercourse. This may eventually lead to abnormalities. Nature does not accept gene mixing between people who share the same genes. Nature wants diversity. Societies have fade because they didn't understood that incest would lead to their desmise.
But in my opinion, sex without reproduction, between two siblings, with no cohertion at all, leads to a no victim situation, to a no abstract evil result. There is no material wrong done. The world would not change. No harm done to anyone.
I think there are far worse things that are accepted by society, even civilized society. I think there is more evil done in apathy for the homeless, and the ederly, that in what may happen in a guy's room with her sister.
I think the world needs to rethink its prespective on what is right and wrong.


About MotherNature I can say she's ways smarter than we are! Your point is good but partly true, let me explain. In a society that keeps mixing with other societies you're completely right, to mix genes is the only way not to disappear. But in some close societies/groups of people, if and when evolution finds its genes equilibrium there's no more need to mix them, just because all people share the best genes for what they need. With no outside interactions (illnesses brought to from "external" people, remarkable changings in life conditions as temperature and so on) there's no real need to have different genes.
I remember about some communities of people in amazonian rain forest as well as in some african deep jungles... They share everything, there's not "my child" or "your child", all the women in the village are taking care about children while men are hunting or collecting some food. When males are aged enough to take part in the food quest they leave the village with others just to come back with food, and of course they have sex with some of the girls they were growing up with, with their sisters and with others, they don't know and don't care. With a good probability with a relative! Is that incest? For us it is, for them not for sure. It's what has always been and they've no concept of it!
So, just puor parler, it mainly depends by society more than from other aspects, and more, it depends on how you are over the laws! Think about all european royal families, the reigning ones as well the ones that have no more a kingdom... Basically they're all relatives! It was not parents/sons (in last centuries... before it was that too) but mainly cousins incest, but it was incest!

I couldn't agree more about the fact we are accepting far worse things than incest as described by you. I think John Lennon said something as "We live in a society where you can show wars and corpses, but you have to hide if you want to have sex / you cannot show two people loving".
As you he couldn't be more right.
We accept violence but we have to keep love hidden... It's crazy!
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Re: Incest

Postby Trucla » Mon, 15Aug17 19:41

Hello!

Part of what I'm going to say/suggest will be off-topic, but as Lou said this is an open discussion, I'll take the risk.

Those of you not having an idea of my dedication to the lagoon, please read this thread . I'll only add that not long afterwards aceboard died.

1.- Everything started with the removal of a link by a moderator and some subsequent discussion that was finally stopped by a clear post of Shark. Later on in this thread,
shark wrote:When a lagooner who has participated in the life of this forum for a long time, who has shared his creations and offered to the members much of his work, decides one day to ask for a financial help, I'm not shocked.
But when a guy creates an account just to put a link to his website and ask for money, I don't agree.
You don't need it, but you have my approval whether you want it or not.
Later on
Greebo wrote:Actually, from what I've been able to piece together, JB Games wasn't even offering a paysite! He was asking for *** subscriptions at ludicrous levels to develop a game of unknowable quality to be available some indeterminate time in the future! Some things might be worth investing in but that sounded like a real "pig in a poke"
Bravo cat! In a few words you said something that was in my mind from the very beginning but never came out in a proper way.

2.- Now I'll add some comments to subjects referred and not referred in this thread:
a)- Paedophylia - As far as I know there are no statistics about this but I bet that there are more or less so many women (woman/girl or woman/boy) as men (man/boy or man/girl) guilty of this awful crime. And in my opinion all these are crimes that should be punished with the maximum penalty previewed in each national law. The same should apply when the victim is mentally handicapped regardless of his/her physical age.
I agree that there is a difference between incest adult/child and adult/adult. The last one is simply incest while the first is paedophylia too.
b)- Rape - Provided the action is not covered by a) I don't consider rape when a partner serves some alcoholic drink to the other, provided this last knows what he/she is going to drink, and no external substance is mixed in it. As an adult he/she must know what the possible effects are.

3.-
Squeeky wrote:In the above commentary there are too many issues that need resolution, and I'll cite a few:
1. Culture,
2. Country/State legislation,
3. Consanguinity (blood relationship) - how closely linked to the immediate family,
4. Consensuality (pediophilia/domination),
5. Biology.
Legislation is something that should concern the webmaster and apparently Shark is aware of it.

As to the other aspects, for me it is enough seeing the different points of view in this thread for noticing that a consensus is absolutely impossible. It would be like trying to dilute olive oil in water.

4.- @Shark: In view of the above, and in order to avoid that any member be shocked (as you were with the action of JBGames) by downloading or playing something out of his/her moral and ethics, I dare asking you to establish a simple rule compelling issuers of the first post in any thread at All Sexy Games, RAGS Games and Projects to indicate clearly the following elements:
a)- The ages of the characters;
b)- If incest of any kind is treated in the game, and if so what kind of incest (even those I don't consider as such);
c)- If rape is involved and in which form;
d)- If physical or psychological violence (connected or not with sex) is treated.

Thanks to Lou for opening this thread, and thanks to all for your attention!
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Re: Incest

Postby tlaero » Tue, 15Aug18 04:02

Trucla wrote:b)- Rape - Provided the action is not covered by a) I don't consider rape when a partner serves some alcoholic drink to the other, provided this last knows what he/she is going to drink, and no external substance is mixed in it. As an adult he/she must know what the possible effects are.


Are you talking about long time partners that have had sex before, or are you including a first date where one person gets the other completely drunk and they have sex while the other is impaired?

Trucla wrote:d)- If physical or psychological violence (connected or not with sex) is treated.


By this scale, would you say that DwE would need to warn about this?

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Re: Incest

Postby Skelaturi » Tue, 15Aug18 04:12

Trucla wrote:
4.- @Shark: In view of the above, and in order to avoid that any member be shocked (as you were with the action of JBGames) by downloading or playing something out of his/her moral and ethics, I dare asking you to establish a simple rule compelling issuers of the first post in any thread at All Sexy Games, RAGS Games and Projects to indicate clearly the following elements:
a)- The ages of the characters;
b)- If incest of any kind is treated in the game, and if so what kind of incest (even those I don't consider as such);
c)- If rape is involved and in which form;
d)- If physical or psychological violence (connected or not with sex) is treated.

Thanks to Lou for opening this thread, and thanks to all for your attention!


nope been explained earlier that, that wouldbe a bad idea due to webcrawlers. Like Google bot etc.


We earlier had the bible btw as an example with adam and eve, and i all of a sudden thought of a great movie with incest, from our pop culture. For some reason i couldn't think of it earlier while it has a name to remember. And the book/movie is fantastic. "The blue lagoon" 2 cousins shipwrecked at a young age, learning life on a island without anyone to teach them
Doggy style (noun)
A sexual position which allows both participants to watch TV.
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Re: Incest

Postby Mortze » Tue, 15Aug18 17:36

Trucla wrote:b)- If incest of any kind is treated in the game, and if so what kind of incest (even those I don't consider as such);


I'll repeat what I said in another thread I think- This b) point might be tricky. In a interactive fiction game like those on RADS and ADRIFT, telling there will be incest might be a spoiler and take away the fun. IF the incest part of the game is optional then I don't think there should be any warning since it is the player to go that way.
But if the game is linear and the incest part can't be avoided then it is ok to say there will be incest in the game.
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Re: Incest

Postby LRM » Tue, 15Aug18 17:45

Trucla wrote:Hello!
-Trimmed-

Morning Trucla:
IMO what you propose isn't possible. I've been thinking about it and the best I can come up with is poll at the beginning of each game. Everyone, after playing the game, fills in the poll. Definitions are so varied even the poll IMO will be of little use. If the web crawlers can find it and use the results even that probably isn't something good for the lagoon.
I don't see any solution not involving many many lawyers from different countries plus pages and pages of definitions for each category.
I think what we currently have is as good as it gets.
Wishes for good health and happiness.
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@ Mortze;
Our minds and postings seem to run parallel. I'm a hunt and peck typist and I slowly formulate my thoughts as I type. Replies often take 10 - 15 minutes before I hit [Submit].
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Re: Incest

Postby Mortze » Tue, 15Aug18 17:52

LRM wrote:@ Mortze;
Our minds and postings seem to run parallel.


If you're as hot as your avatar we should meet and discuss about it.
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Re: Incest

Postby LRM » Tue, 15Aug18 18:00

I have the same equipment as do you... Thank you; no!
I've been married to wonderful Lady for over 44 years. I've yet to meet anyone that's worth jeopardizing what I already have.
Chat over a cup of coffee? Any time.
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Re: Incest

Postby Skelaturi » Tue, 15Aug18 20:03

LRM wrote: I was stationed at Spangdahlem.


And with your signature the answer would be : Sir, yes Sir!
Doggy style (noun)
A sexual position which allows both participants to watch TV.
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Re: Incest

Postby LRM » Tue, 15Aug18 20:24

Skelaturi wrote:
And with your signature the answer would be : Sir, yes Sir!

I used Lt, Cap'n, Col, a lot... Damned few got Sir, they had to earn that. I did, at multiple bases, work for/with some very good Officers. Ever hear of Gen Horner? Maybe the best I ever met. I worked with some real assholes too.
At Spangdahlem I had 140± people in 17 specialties working for me. Almost did me in. It's what made me realize it was time to get out. I did 1.5 years later. 20 years 2 months and 27 days, not that I kept track.
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Re: Incest

Postby Skelaturi » Tue, 15Aug18 21:09

LRM wrote:
Skelaturi wrote:
And with your signature the answer would be : Sir, yes Sir!

I used Lt, Cap'n, Col, a lot... Damned few got Sir, they had to earn that. I did, at multiple bases, work for/with some very good Officers. Ever hear of Gen Horner? Maybe the best I ever met. I worked with some real assholes too.
At Spangdahlem I had 140± people in 17 specialties working for me. Almost did me in. It's what made me realize it was time to get out. I did 1.5 years later. 20 years 2 months and 27 days, not that I kept track.
Lou


and now you are running some undisciplined bunch here. I get it ^^
Doggy style (noun)
A sexual position which allows both participants to watch TV.
---
My weakness a deviant Redhead: http://the-new-lagoon.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8&start=4425#p97335

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Re: Incest

Postby Mimailia » Wed, 15Aug19 12:11

LRM wrote:
Skelaturi wrote:
And with your signature the answer would be : Sir, yes Sir!

I used Lt, Cap'n, Col, a lot... Damned few got Sir, they had to earn that. I did, at multiple bases, work for/with some very good Officers. Ever hear of Gen Horner? Maybe the best I ever met. I worked with some real assholes too.
At Spangdahlem I had 140± people in 17 specialties working for me. Almost did me in. It's what made me realize it was time to get out. I did 1.5 years later. 20 years 2 months and 27 days, not that I kept track.
Lou

And whether I agree or disagree with your posts, I thank you (in my mind) every time I read one, for every minute of your 20 years 2 months and 27 days.

M

Edit: Great thread BTW!
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Re: Incest

Postby BeanBean » Sat, 15Aug22 14:53

Perv: The Sexual Deviant in All of Us by Jesse Bering is a great book/audiobook written by a psychologist and discusses sexual fetishes and society's reaction to them (including incest). For those who go by gut feeling on what is and is not moral, it may change your perspective.

Personally, I am neither disgusted or aroused by fictional accounts of incest between consenting adults. However, I do find games involving rape disturbing (including mind-control, blackmail and drugging), and I would certainly like to see posts linking games that have such elements to carry warnings of their content.


There were some questions earlier in the thread of whether digital renderings may constitute child pornography. It may differ from country to country, in Japan it is often "No" but in Australia it is certainly "Yes."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-12-08/f ... les/233562
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Re: Incest

Postby Rexxx » Sat, 15Aug22 15:25

In a global world law can be very different, for example in some country homosexuality has death penalty.
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