DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby tlaero » Fri, 15Mar20 20:16

wodahSShadow wrote: Making a copy isn't taking or depriving someone so it still isn't stealing. This has been discussed at length in courts, it still isn't stealing.


The courts can decide whatever they want. If I make something and you take it against my will, you're doing something wrong. Call it stealing, snitching, or asserting your god-given right to take anything you want for free. It's still wrong.

I find it sad that people have convinced themselves otherwise.

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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby wodahSShadow » Fri, 15Mar20 21:27

So you admit the word steal doesn't apply to copying and that you use it to give your argument more emotional power?

You call it wrong yet I can't see anything wrong with copying of public information, what exactly is wrong about it in your view?
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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby LRM » Fri, 15Mar20 21:42

wodahSShadow wrote:So you admit the word steal doesn't apply to copying and that you use it to give your argument more emotional power?

You call it wrong yet I can't see anything wrong with copying of public information, what exactly is wrong about it in your view?

There is absolutely nothing wrong in creating a copy IF the creator/owner has granted permission to do so.

How would you like it if I enter your place of employment, watch you do your job for an hour so, then tell your boss I'll do what you are doing for half your wage? Or even worse volunteer to do it for nothing? Would you happily stand by while the eviction/foreclosure continues? I think not!
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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby wodahSShadow » Fri, 15Mar20 22:35

LRM wrote:There is absolutely nothing wrong in creating a copy IF the creator/owner has granted permission to do so.


Okay but what is wrong about creating a copy without permission? Besides not having permission of course.

In that analogy all you could do is repeat exactly what I did in the time you observed me. If you're not just churning out copies of what you saw me do then the analogy breaks. Unless I work in an assembly line that never changes I don't see why my boss would replace me with you.

Lets say my boss does replace me, it would be like getting a robot to do my job, a robot that can only ever do a specific set of movements. Are you against automation too?

A reminder that the analogy doesn't hold, it can't be equated to copying or copyright.
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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby Greyelf » Sat, 15Mar21 00:05

wodahSShadow wrote:we won't have 3D printers that work with any material for a while

We already have one's that work with plastics, metals, wood, ceramic and even bio-material.
Some are available to the general public, some to people with deep pockets and some are only in testing, but they do exist.

wodahSShadow wrote:Those two people you know put their work out in the open expecting a sum of money for every copy made, fools.

Freelance professional travel photographers currently have two basic ways available to them to sell their product to their buyers. (magazines, newspapers, book writers, news services)
a. Contact / visit each business directly, which is very time consuming and costly as there are a lot of business you need to contact because they generally don't make much on each individual sale
b. Upload their product to professional photo sale sites so that multiple businesses can see you have available and then the business contact you. As the seller has to pay for the service they generally aren't a member of all the different sites. And this is what allows dishonest people to copy images on one site and and sell them as their own on another.

Are you saying that if a folk musician sells a CD at a concert that it is ok if the buyer then makes copies of the CD and sells them on-line?

wodahSShadow wrote:see KickStarter and *** for examples.
Maybe your friends should get into the blockbuster industry

You are aware that most people who do the first don't actually reach their target or fail to get enough sponsors. There is after all only a finite amount of charity to be spread around.
I would be surprised if most individual (or groups of) independent artists have access to the deep pockets it takes to create something like Blockbuster.

wodahSShadow wrote:If I create a copy of that table who owns it?

Did you learn the craft and then go through the effort needed to build yourself a table that looks like the one the other carpenter made?
If so then it is not a copy but an original work that looks like the other one and therefor you own it. Whether or not the other carpenter tries to sue you for coping his design is a different matter, but the original work is still yours.
Based on the above I believe your next argument is going to be, what is the difference between this scenario and the one where someone takes photos of the carpenters table and uses 3D printers to make copies, and my answer is "Unreasonable gain from another person's efforts".
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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby sportd » Sat, 15Mar21 00:08

wodahSShadow wrote:
sportd wrote:No. It means that to attach two pieces of wood together I could use a nailgun, hammer and nail, screws and a screwdriver, screws and a powerdrill or some adhesive. The wood is still attached together but the way in which it is done is up for debate. If I used different tools to produce the game, the game would still be similar to the current version.


Would it? If you just used javascript you wouldn't have the DRM benefit.



Sorry, I'll clarify. If I used different tools, the users gameplay would be similar. They would get the same user experience.

Also. without using arrays and indexedDB, how would you create the datasets in javascript?
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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby Greyelf » Sat, 15Mar21 00:15

sportd wrote:Also. without using arrays and indexedDB, how would you create the datasets in javascript?

If @wodahSShadow answer is objects then I just want point out that they are basically just associative arrays with some properties that have meaning.
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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby wodahSShadow » Sat, 15Mar21 02:32

Greyelf wrote:We already have one's that work with plastics, metals, wood, ceramic and even bio-material.


Yet no weaved vine basket 3D printer. Those artisans are safe for now.

Greyelf wrote:Are you saying that if a folk musician sells a CD at a concert that it is ok if the buyer then makes copies of the CD and sells them on-line?


Yes.

Greyelf wrote:You are aware that most people who do the first don't actually reach their target or fail to get enough sponsors. There is after all only a finite amount of charity to be spread around.


Regular non-charity money is also finite. You certainly don't expect everyone to achieve their goals, do you?

Greyelf wrote:Based on the above I believe your next argument is going to be, what is the difference between this scenario and the one where someone takes photos of the carpenters table and uses 3D printers to make copies, and my answer is "Unreasonable gain from another person's efforts".


That person's efforts are the table he owns, not on the printed table. "unreasonable gain"? What's reasonable and what isn't?

sportd wrote:Sorry, I'll clarify. If I used different tools, the users gameplay would be similar. They would get the same user experience.


Sure, I assumed that any tool that degraded the experience would be disqualified.

sportd wrote:Also. without using arrays and indexedDB, how would you create the datasets in javascript?


Like Greyelf said objects are associative arrays so you could technically say it's all arrays anyway but in The Gym pretty much everything is in arrays. So much indexing...didn't that tire you? You didn't have to write so many square brackets and numbers.
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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby sportd » Sat, 15Mar21 02:48

wodahSShadow wrote:Like Greyelf said objects are associative arrays so you could technically say it's all arrays anyway but in The Gym pretty much everything is in arrays. So much indexing...didn't that tire you? You didn't have to write so many square brackets and numbers.


Yes I did. which is why I looked for another option.

Same question: You are saying I should use javascript (which ticks the no DRM requirement). How would you create the datasets?
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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby wodahSShadow » Sat, 15Mar21 03:11

I thought the answer was clear, objects and properties. It remains similar except much less array indexing and allows you to give descriptive names, instead of just numbers, to each scene.

I really don't see what advantage a DB would give.
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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby Greyelf » Sat, 15Mar21 05:18

wodahSShadow wrote:I thought the answer was clear, objects and properties. It remains similar except much less array indexing and allows you to give descriptive names, instead of just numbers, to each scene.

So you recommend a less efficient option that uses more memory as a better solution because it allows for descriptive property names. interesting.

@sportd: Is your array code manually written or generated by a tool/editor?
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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby wodahSShadow » Sat, 15Mar21 12:57

Less efficient? You can make millions of property lookups on an object per second, you'll be making a couple lookups per second if you're just rushing through the game. There's more of a difference in efficiency between Firefox and Chrome than between arrays and object properties, do you use Chrome to finish the game a few milliseconds sooner?

The extra memory is equally negligible, especially when compared to using a freaking database.
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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby tlaero » Sat, 15Mar21 17:02

wodahSShadow wrote:You call it wrong yet I can't see anything wrong with copying of public information, what exactly is wrong about it in your view?


You really and truly believe that, so long as a digital copy exists, you should be allowed to take, for free, all software, books, songs, comics, and movies, regardless of whether the creator of those things is charging for them? And you can't see anything wrong with this belief? What do you do for a living?

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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby wodahSShadow » Sat, 15Mar21 19:23

tlaero wrote:What do you do for a living?


Does this matter to your argument or just to your view of me? It's irrelevant, go ahead and presume I'm a leech on society who gives nothing back. Doesn't make your argument any stronger because that's not how logic works.

You think ideas are property and should be handled as such. You can't see anything wrong with this belief?

If you can't then you know how I felt when reading your comment. I asked what's wrong about copying and you still haven't told us. Answer the damn question.
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Re: DRM, downloadable content, load times etc..

Postby tlaero » Sat, 15Mar21 21:18

I spend most of my professional and private life making both digital and physical products. The digital ones take no less effort to make than physical ones. I see no difference between people taking digital copies and physical ones. I've lost both types and, I assure you, it's the same thing. Take one of my novels, for instance. The cost of creating it isn't the printing. It's the months on end that I spent writing it.

I'd like for you to explain why you think you're entitled to benefit from all of my efforts for free.

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