America on the cusp?

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America on the cusp?

Postby Xyzzy987 » Sun, 12Aug26 20:48

I brought this conversation over to the beach because I thought this would be a better place to continue this discussion.

Solid Snake wrote:@ LRM

L'Amérique est peut-être aujourd'hui sur le déclin ( tout relatif ) mais des personnes comme G.Lucas, S.Spielberg, F.F.Coppolla, Robert E. Howard, I.Asimov, F.Herbert, Howard P.Lovecraft, ... ( la liste est très/trop longue ) vivront longtemps dans la mémoire collective.


I thought it interesting, Solid Snake, that you mention people who have mostly been pioneers on the world of entertainment. But what about the real scientists, mathematicians, and inventors who made possible the contributions of those you have named? Where is the modern day Eli Whitney, Henry Ford, Albert Einstein, Robert Oppenheimer, Jonas Salk, et al? That's what I'm worried about here -- the dumbing down of America. Over the last several years it seems to have become bad, or wrong, or even unpatriotic to be intelligent in America. Do people from other parts of the world also feel the same way about their countries?

By the way, my only trip to France occurred a few years ago, when I visited Paris. I had a wonderful time. I found the city to be one of the most beautiful I've ever seen, and the people were uniformly friendly, helpful, and courteous. I think all you have to do is make a little effort, wherever you visit. Learn a few phrases in the native language, be nice to your "hosts," and you'll usually find they'll be nice to you. I've been to several places around the globe, and I've found this approach to work for me. Lou, I'm not saying that you didn't do this, just that this has been my experience. Also, I live in somewhat of a tourist area, and I go out of my way to be helpful to the tourists I encounter at home. I like where I live, and I want others to like it, too.
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby Solid Snake » Mon, 12Aug27 02:16

Cher Xyzzy987,

Il est vrai que j'ai cité des personnes travaillants dans le divertissement. Mais la fiction d'aujourdhui est peut-être la réalité de demain. Mary Shelley ( Frankenstein ) et Georges Orwell ( Big Brother ) en sont la preuve.

Il est tout aussi vrai que les Grands Empires du Passé ( Babylone, L'Ancienne Egypte, La Grèce Antique, Rome, Genghis Khan, Napoléon, Alexandre le Grand, La Vieille Europe Industrielle et Coloniale, ... ) tous sont passés par une période d'apogée ( où ils commandaient à l'ensemble du monde connu ) puis par une phase de déclin, quelle qu'est été la source, l'origine de leur puissance ( industrielle, miltaire, économique ou diplomatique voire toutes à la fois).
Mais, comme je l'ai déjà écrit, l'Amérique a atteint une position qui nous a été profitable à tous. Espérons que celà durera.

Quant au dernier point abordé, je m'exprime sur ce forum dans la langue de V.Hugo car c'est celle avec laquelle j'ai le plus de facilité étant tour à tour un auteur et un lecteur. Ainsi, je suis sûr de traduire fidèlement mes pensées. Les langues de Goethe et Poe ne me sont plus aussi familières que lorsque j'étais à l'école, ce qui remonte très loin dans le passé. De plus, je me doute que les Lagooners savent très bien utiliser un programme de traduction automatique ( qui fera moins d'erreurs que moi ).

Amicalement.
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby LRM » Mon, 12Aug27 07:07

@ Xyzzy987;
I'm anti ugly American.
I spoke Thai.
I like to get off the base and rub elbows with the locals. We were more than once in a German establishment behind other Americans, that never tried to speak the language of the people of whom they were guests, asking for something in English. Only to be told NO specenzie. We moved to the front asked our question in our best German and had the proprietor answer in English. It happened many times. My daughter when not in school played with German children. She spoke German to them and they spoke English to her. If German or English was spoken incorrectly, they didn't hesitate to let the other know. Thats why (IMO) many Germans won't speak English to Americans. They are afraid of ridicule. We found if they thought it OK to butcher their language, then they could safely return the favor.
If I'm not mistaken my Lady tried French in a café (Paris) and was told out right to speak English, she could NOT speak French.

I think we're on an economic slide. We make almost nothing more difficult than a hamburger. Our economy is currently based on service industries. We import 99% of everything we use. When we come up with a new concept or idea we as rapidly as possible sell it to raise our quarterly profits! We seem incapable of planning for anything beyond 3 months ahead.
We have played with the biology of our food to such an extreme many countries forbid its import.
Our schools are so afraid they might hurt someones feelings they "mainstream" children that belong in special ed. Then teach to the lowest learning ability. Those with better than average smarts fall asleep. When I attended public school there were 3 teachers in each elementary grade. Those with less than average learning ability were in the same classroom. A second taught the average students, and a third taught those that excelled. DOD schools in Germany still do this and it works better for all involved. Try that here! Little Johny's parents will sue the school's ass off because there prodigy is considered slow!!! We bring much of our countries ills on ourselves.
I don't know if there is a solution, but we need start with our elected officials. They pass laws exempting themselves from what the populace must obey.
Want to fix Social Security? Make Congress use it!!! We need toss all their asses out of DC. They are there to represent the people that elected them. Instead they blindly follow party ideals and bow to any Corporation willing to throw money at them; to hell with what America needs. We're badly broken. I'm not sure there is enough time to fix it.
Sorry for my vent but I feel better.
Want to lose a life time of working to get ahead? Get chronically ill! You soon exhaust your savings, and shortly thereafter your home. We NEED socialized health care!!!
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby Squeeky » Mon, 12Aug27 07:23

LRM wrote:@ Xyzzy987;
I'm anti ugly American.

Hm.
Watch your back mate. Remember Julian Assange?

{I'll take a back on the J.A. thing. I do believe that he has a legitimate need to face accusations in Sweden. After that ... let us see}

Seriously Lou, I am quite impressed with your summary of the US status whether it be right or wrong, in some respects I see those words mirroring the Aussie state of affairs, someone gets a good idea, for instance, and the patents and production rights are sold overseas. Then there are politicians who cannot believe in science because the potential for global warming (even if it it does not exist) means cutting back the dollars in the bank!! Shareholders! My performance bonus!

Is social media our salvation, or just another means that cranks can foist stupid ideas upon us?
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby LRM » Mon, 12Aug27 07:42

The politicians... We need an open hunting season! They are aware that any consequence for their action will almost certainly be a problem for some future office holder. Most will be long dead before a problem of their creation rears it's ugly head. They want to be in office long enough to get their retirement and don't give two shits about anything beyond that. If our Government thinks it OK for Corporations to tear up agreements with their retired employees, then WE the American PUBLIC should be able to dismantle Congress's pension. I think it'll take something that drastic to awaken them! Washington State has an initiate that the people vote on. Time for something similar in DC!!!
Environment??? Pro environment is anti business; there will BE NO anti business!!! And we (The US of A) are such hypocrites!!! Rather than set the example, we pollute to our hearts content and pressure industrializing countries to cut back on pollution.
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby Solid Snake » Tue, 12Aug28 20:36

@ LRM

Je suis entièrement d'accord avec votre appréiation des politiciens. L'Art Suprême du politique est de parler de tout avec tout le monde et surtout ne rien faire pour ne vexer personne.

Si vous en avez la possibilité, regardez Star Wars ( Episode II et III ). Ecoutez attentivement l'opinion d'Obi-Wan Kenobi sur les Politiciens. Ca rappelle bien des choses.

Amicalement;

Bing translation posted by Lou
@ RSM
I fully agree with your appreiation of politicians. The Supreme Art of the policy is to share everything with everyone and especially do nothing to offend anyone.If you have the ability, take a look at Star Wars (Episode II and III). Listen carefully to the views of Obi - Wan Kenobi on the politicians. It recalls many things.All the best;
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby Newdood » Wed, 12Aug29 13:15

Oh my! A troubling, but VERY INTERESTING conversation to stumble into on my return to the lagoon!

I find myself in agreement with Lou and XYZZY. I'm afraid that the time frame for consideration in corporate boardrooms has been shortened to the next quarterly report. Unfortunately, recently this corporate boardroom mentality has been STRONGLY influencing public policy. I'm afraid this does NOT bode well for the America that I was born and raised in.

We have come to look for returns RIGHT NOW and have lost sight of the benefits of long-term investment, strategy, and planning. I WISH the problem was easily solved by something like declaring open season on politicians, but I'm afraid the only real hope is down a tougher trail than that. To be blunt and honest about it, I'm not sure the American public is willing to make some of the tough choices required because the payback is too far down the road. I don't think we can make the country - and the world - a better place for our children and grandchildren without some short-term sacrifices.

I believe America has been in a similar situation before, when Wall Street's mentality became overwhelmingly predominant in the 1920's. We survived that trip to the precipice, but by the skin of our teeth. It took the great depression and World War II to pull us back from the edge. I'm not sure the WORLD could survive a cataclysm sufficient to get us to clear our heads this time around.

I hope I'm wrong and I will work until my dying breath to make it so. My efforts in that direction right now revolve around the constitutional amendment efforts to reverse the SCOTUS's disastrous Citizens United decision. If there is a glimmer of hope on the horizon, it'll come from actual people realizing that's what good for corporate America is NOT necessarily good for the country as a whole.

End of rant - apologies for the venting of pent-up frustrations.
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby Haydee1995 » Sun, 12Sep02 09:50

ce sera la page de forum parfait pour quiconque veut en savoir sur ce sujet. Vous savez beaucoup de sa pratique difficile d'argumenter avec vous (non pas que j'ai vraiment voudrait ... haha). Vous devez absolument mettre une toute nouvelle sur un sujet thats écrit sur des années. Des choses fantastiques, tout simplement excellents!

Bing translation posted by Lou
This will be the page of forum perfect for anyone who wants to learn about this subject. You know many of its hard to argue with you practice (not that I really would... haha). You need to put a new on something thats written on years. Fantastic things, all simply excellent!

Luke's comment
Seems that the original message is already an automatic translation into french from another language (i suspect english)
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby gnac » Mon, 12Sep03 18:48

Suggested cures for america's problems by a 48 year old ex military cancer survivor who flips hamburgers for a living.(seriously, I'm not kidding)
I. Political paychecks based on unemployment rate your area is 8% unemployed you make 8% less.
II. Unspent donations to a politicians reelection fund must be returned to the party that made the donations. Here in America the politician gets to keep his warchest.
III. All personal and corporate donations to a specific politician should be TAXABLE!!! There are bills always being written to make these payoffs untaxable.Stop them from being passed.
IV. A realistic retirement plan for congress. 4 Years in elected office gets a congressman gets a retirement health plan and a pension.
V. In America I keep finding people who didn't vote because there's never any crooks actually working for them.Me I vote every national election but I'm lax on the local elections and I know I need to change that.
A. Use this philosophy your not voting for a crook your voting for the other crook to get kicked out.
There is probably a few thousand more ideas for cures; please don't be shy with the words Its the kneejerk violent response that should be avoided.
The American deficit is so large now it has eaten almost all the precalculated tax base of any grandchildren I may have in the future, and soon it will eat our greatgrandchildren.Other countries have followed us down this path and it may take America another 236 years to dig ourselves out of this hole we have dug.
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby Solid Snake » Thu, 12Oct04 21:31

La meilleure réponse aux politiciens ? ... Très simple. Le Code Fiscal au feu, et les politiques au milieu.

Pour les Erudits, lisez le roman "Executive Orders" ( Sur Ordre, en VF ) de Tom Clancy. Il y a une scène où le tout nouveau secretaire d'Etat au Trésor se présente devant le Congrès américain pour la première fois pour définir ses objectifs. Cette scène est très évocatrice et devrait amener nos politiciens respectifs à se poser des questions, notamment "Quoi faire ? ... Réformer Quoi ? Comment ? ..."
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby David » Sat, 12Oct06 17:18

LRM wrote:The politicians... We need an open hunting season!


You should read Term Limits by Vince Flynn. (Ex military commandos start taking out U.S. politicians...)

LRM wrote:They are aware that any consequence for their action will almost certainly be a problem for some future office holder. Most will be long dead before a problem of their creation rears it's ugly head.


The time it takes for just about any major building or construction project means someone else will be able to be in the limelight when said project is finished. For example: there have been proposals for a second Sydney airport going on for over 50 years. No-one wants to approve it because they won't be in power by the time it's finished. Meanwhile, the estimated cost will only be headed in one direction...
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby Newdood » Sat, 12Dec22 20:31

Well... This topic has gone quiet for a while.

Certainly the recent election has changed things - I hope for the better - but now the country is dancing on the edge of the "Fiscal Cliff." I don't understand all the ramifications of it, but I REALLY don't understand why some of the obstructionists in Congress would rather, apparently, leap off this "cliff" than budge from their "no new taxes" pledges.

I see these shenanigans from a fairly close perspective (I'm an American citizen and I live just across the border in Canada) but I'm curious how this standoff looks to the rest of the world.
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby LRM » Sat, 12Dec22 20:54

I haven't favored the Republican Party for many years, but I see their involvement here as severely curtailing their influence and size in congress. Both sides seem to forget they are there to represent the American People! IMO the Republican party favors business at the expense of the majority of the people.
Lou
I don't vote party line... I cast my vote for the candidate that I think will do the most good for the US of A. Often to the detriment of the State where I reside.
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby David » Fri, 13Feb08 02:59

Newdood wrote:Certainly the recent election has changed things - I hope for the better - but now the country is dancing on the edge of the "Fiscal Cliff." I don't understand all the ramifications of it, but I REALLY don't understand why some of the obstructionists in Congress would rather, apparently, leap off this "cliff" than budge from their "no new taxes" pledges.

I see these shenanigans from a fairly close perspective (I'm an American citizen and I live just across the border in Canada) but I'm curious how this standoff looks to the rest of the world.


Here in Australia the government has been stumbling from one foul-up to another. An election has just been announced for September (8 months away!!), the prime minister seems to have no idea. Seems like the majority of the public is counting the days until we can kick her out of office.
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Re: America on the cusp?

Postby Squeeky » Fri, 13Feb08 03:45

Since you wish to expose a political point of view may I suggest that the other side offers nothing constructive, ie, nothing which can be seen as having a solid economic foundation. Then too, gains made appear to be under severe threat by the alternative (trialled high speed internet services for instance are now being demanded by business in areas remote from the Capital Cities). Look at your country's performance from a global perspective and not from the mound of the ostrich who would bury his head in the sand and not care to see what the world is in reality. I will say nothing further on this matter.
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