Good news from abroad...

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Re: Good news from abroad...

Postby WhiteFireDaemon » Sat, 17Dec02 09:29

I have to say that I find your willingness to censor content that you personally don't like quite disturbing. If Patreon had instead banned hardcore porn instead or even porn in it's entirety, you'd most likely have a vary different opinion. Do gay people have the right to take away your hetero porn? What if it was a ban on tattoo/piercing/interracial/anal/BDSM porn? This is a serious set back for free speech rights and anyone who thinks otherwise clearly doesn't fully grasp the gravity of the problem. You may be happy because you don't like the content they're banning, but as the saying goes "Hate speech is free speech". You should be fighting to stop censorship.

I won't argue the legality or morality of incest porn and to try to argue pedophilia would be to tie my own noose, but I do remember reading something once that speculated that Japan's fetish porn actually helped to reduce sex related crimes. What if by taking away the porn that these people enjoy just exacerbates sex crime rates? Taking away incest porn isn't going to make people stop liking it, they're just going to be frustrated that they can't get it.

If you aren't willing to fight Patreon's censorship, then I hope you don't complain when they next encroach on something you do appreciate.
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Re: Good news from abroad...

Postby Sarchx » Sat, 17Dec02 10:28

Patreon can impose it on whatever it likes. It's a private company, and they will do as they see fit, to keep it profitable. Let's not forget that.
To be honest, I'm surprised they haven't done it earlier.
I agree they didn't handle it very well, as I think they should have send a warning to the creators prior to the changes in policy being made, instead of suspending accounts first and trying to sort it out later.

In general, I think most people are opposed to censorship but at the same time, there's some things they don't want available on the net.
I'm sure you all can think of a couple of things, if you put your mind to it.
Therefore, it will always be up to the morale of the site owner, what content they will make it available to.
If that means, they loose traffic/customers, then that's the consequence the site owner must accept.

I'm not going go into legal issues that could surround the censorship, or lack of, as I have no idea about legislation or how it works across borders - but if it's not a problem legally, and you can actually make money of a uncensored patreonlike site, then I have no doubts that we will see an alternative pop up somewhere.
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Re: Good news from abroad...

Postby PinkVendeta » Sat, 17Dec02 15:02

To be honest, I kind of had a gut feeling this was coming a long time back and I do not think this is the end of it either.

They want the term incest removed, and they want the entire storyline in a game edited to remove, mom, son, dad, daughter, neice and so on, many big patreon devs have had to go into their games and do all asked or face a perm ban, I mean the big incest games makers, some of them are earning over 20,000 per month making incest games and games with mind control, magic mind control, incest, bestiality, underage clearly, but stating they all models are 18 or over :lol:

I think this is just the start of what patreon plan to do, as clearly 90+% of games on patreon were incest/bestiality/underage/mind control and so on and on, it was to much in reality, and no dev needs over 20,000 per month to pay his bills :lol:
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Re: Good news from abroad...

Postby Tao Dude » Sun, 17Dec03 16:19

PinkVendeta wrote: no dev needs over 20,000 per month to pay his bills :lol:

Unless they are employing a team of programmers and artists, as some can afford to do. It would be interesting to see how many are declaring the income to the tax authorities, mind you it's arguable that income from the internet is offshore income if the patrons are not in the same country as the Dev.
This is not about legality or morality, or even censorship: there is little drive to stamp out games and films like Grand Theft Auto that glorify other immoral/illegal acts that arguably do more harm to society and the individuals affected than incest between consenting adults. It's about power and influence: one person's freedom of speech is another person's oppression.
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Re: Good news from abroad...

Postby PinkVendeta » Sun, 17Dec03 22:58

Tao Dude wrote:
PinkVendeta wrote: no dev needs over 20,000 per month to pay his bills :lol:

Unless they are employing a team of programmers and artists, as some can afford to do. It would be interesting to see how many are declaring the income to the tax authorities, mind you it's arguable that income from the internet is offshore income if the patrons are not in the same country as the Dev.
This is not about legality or morality, or even censorship: there is little drive to stamp out games and films like Grand Theft Auto that glorify other immoral/illegal acts that arguably do more harm to society and the individuals affected than incest between consenting adults. It's about power and influence: one person's freedom of speech is another person's oppression.

Very good point on the tax bit, I was gonna say that also prior, but had a blond moment and forgot to say it :D , tax free earnings to the tune of over 20,000 per month, given in donations but not to a charity :lol: , Im a sure both the IRS and European taxman could have a field day on patreon [img]smile/eek.gif[/img]

As the saying goes, Each To Their Own.

I dont like or agree with these things in the real world, or in games, and thus I avoid them and I do not put up with them in my life.
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Re: Good news from abroad...

Postby kessie8dn » Sat, 19May25 13:46

Some time has passed since I started this thread, so we can now see how it's panned out..

While I'm not vehemently opposed to IC in games, my original point was that it was becoming so ubiquitous. It doesn't actually seem to have made much difference though. While some devs have gone back and "rewritten" (see below) their text, others haven't and new IC games seem to be appearing.

Whether or not a ban on IC would lead to more non-IC games is a moot point, if the only reason a developer is making a game is to feed his/her own IC fetish, I guess he/she will stop making them. I just think it's a bit lazy and unoriginal. I can't recall any of the "lagoon-based" devs resorting to it, and they include some of the best games around.

As for the "Find... Replace" thing - I am dismayed by the number of times characters are being referred to as "Roomies" or "landladies" even in dialogue... You are allowed to marry your cousin in most societies, without it being considered incest. Whether or not you're really in to the IC thing, surely "cousin" is less grating than the clunky "roomie"? "OMG you're kissing me! But I am your roomy!!" - Yeh, like, so what?
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Re: Good news from abroad...

Postby MaxCarna » Sat, 19May25 15:46

I guess that the only victim of this rule was Big Brother from Dark Silver, the dev completely abandoned what was one of the most successful games, considering number of fans, patrons, and so.

Other games simply replaced "Mom" for "Landlady" and "Sister" for "Roommate". Besides they created small mods called "incest patchs" just to go back to "Mom" and "Sister".

I guess people wants what people wants. No rule will change their minds, you will only put them to work on a way to break the rule.

Funny thing is that Patreon banned incest and bestiality, but if you take a look on Graphtreon, the largest games (in number of patrons) are Summertime Saga (incest), Monster Girl Island and Fenoxo that has somekind of bestiality and Palmer which the major game is called "Daughter for Dessert"...
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Re: Good news from abroad...

Postby Greyelf » Sun, 19May26 00:26

kessie8dn wrote:You are allowed to marry your cousin in most societies, without it being considered incest. Whether or not you're really in to the IC thing, surely "cousin" is less grating than the clunky "roomie"?
The only definition of what is actually considered 'incest' in relation to Patreon's ban of specific content types is the one that Patreon themselves have set, and as I understand things that definition includes any blood or non-blood relationship types that can legally be considered a 'family' member.

Which depending on the Legal Region(s) covering the web-site, the Patreon company, the Content Creator, and possibly the Content Consumer as well that could cover a wide range of non-direct 'family' relationship types including "cousin".
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Re: Good news from abroad...

Postby kessie8dn » Sun, 19May26 00:59

MaxCarna wrote:...and Palmer which the major game is called "Daughter for Dessert"...

Excellent point - I've never found out how to continue the next chapters of "DfD", and I can't be bothered asking, there's so many other games to play. Another one that comes to mind is "Dating My Daughter". Their continued presence suggests to me that the "ban" was pretty much a figleaf for Patreon and your game is conveniently overlooked if you bring in enough downloads.

My main problem has always been with the number of games that leaned so heavily on the ic element for the "thrill" (for the want of a better word), which is why I hoped the "ban" would cause devs to put a bit more thought into scenarios.

I totally agree that BigBro was (is) a good game - although I'm sure it could have worked equally well without the ic element because it was so well executed. Had he just followed the example of simply ignoring the "ban", like the games previously mentioned, BigBro probably would've been overlooked as well..
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Re: Good news from abroad...

Postby Greyelf » Mon, 19May27 00:21

kessie8dn wrote:Another one that comes to mind is "Dating My Daughter". Their continued presence suggests to me that the "ban" was pretty much a figleaf for Patreon and your game is conveniently overlooked if you bring in enough downloads.

As I understand things the creator making "Dating My Daughter" was required to stop using Patreon as a means to fund that game, so the creator switched to using SubscribeStar to fund it instead. The funds from Patreon are now being used to make "Melody".
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Re: Good news from abroad...

Postby kessie8dn » Fri, 19May31 20:17

Greyelf wrote:
kessie8dn wrote:Another one that comes to mind is "Dating My Daughter". Their continued presence suggests to me that the "ban" was pretty much a figleaf for Patreon and your game is conveniently overlooked if you bring in enough downloads.

As I understand things the creator making "Dating My Daughter" was required to stop using Patreon as a means to fund that game, so the creator switched to using SubscribeStar to fund it instead. The funds from Patreon are now being used to make "Melody".


I think you're right - but they do all seem to blur into each other so much it's hard to tell them apart at times..
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