Render Advice and Feedback

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Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Eldormain » Mon, 17Mar20 21:36

Hello Creators,

I have been spending lots of time learning DAZ3D 4.9 and getting a good understanding of what the program can do, as well as, how to do it. I started creating a character with the intentions of using him as the main character in my first project. I posed him and put him in a scene then proceeded to add things I have learned. So, now I am looking for some feedback. The sorts of things I am looking for is in regards to the render quality, composition, lighting, etc. Naturally, anything I might be overlooking that might be obvious to the more experienced. I am using IRay with Michael 7.

Image

Here is my take on it. The image hasn't been through post render yet (been dragging my feet on getting Photoshop). While doing this image I was mostly looking to put together a good looking image. Things like time of day and atmosphere conditions were not dominant on my mind. However, I was thinking perhaps a bit after noon. Getting closer to what I feel is a good or more complete image I would need to tone down the sparkly bits on the bike unless I added a lens flare instead, reflecting off the bike. I haven't used any Volumetric lighting as of yet which, as I understand it, should take away some of the facial blurriness? Or at least make the model pop more. Also, I kind of like the lighting play on his shirt but definitely need some work on shadows.

How far off base am I? Any suggestions? I value your input.

Cheers,

Eldormain

P: here is a link to the uncropped image in case it helps.

http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy53 ... st__03.jpg
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Mortze » Mon, 17Mar20 22:27

I see Michael 7 has been going to the gym!

The rendering is actually pretty nice if you didn't had atmosphere, time of day and weather in mind. I always have so looking at the picture I'd say it isn't an overcast day and neither a sunny one. Looks like those times when a small shadow passes in front of the sun.
The character's pose is well worked, it doesn't look like a preset pose, I always prefer personal posing.
Not sure if the bike's tires are supposed to be that into the ground. I don't know the model but it looks like there's some under pressure on the tires.
I would advise some camera focus work, to isolate the character and bike from the background. Also, the rule of thirds is always nice to use instead of a character in the center of the picture.
Try to rotate your camera slightly and you'll have a totally different and more dynamic shot.
The lighting isn't bad at all. Did you use a preset or did you mount the lights yourself?

The only thing that I don't like much is the Bloom Filter effect on the bike's lights. It works on the neons alright, but not on the chromes. The way it is it makes me think the bike isn't part of the scenery.
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Eldormain » Mon, 17Mar20 22:52

I agree about the tires. I thought I had them well placed. But after setting the camera and doing some other work I had noticed, down the road, that the back tire in particular seemed to be sunk into the ground.

The pose started with a preset but then was tweaked to fit the scene, make it my own, and look more natural.

Most of the lighting I mounted. I did apply a preset to test it out and that is where I got the light play on his shirt and the bloom. I don't recall seeing the preset appear in my Scene list which makes me wonder how to remove it so I could experiment more without it. I might have a save prior to applying it.

Cheers.

I will mess with the camera angle.
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Mortze » Mon, 17Mar20 23:21

The light preset probably is there. It might have loaded a dome and applied Dome and Scene in Environment. If that's the case then it won't appear in your Scene tab.
Check the Environment in Render Settings to see if something is different from the default values and maps.
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Sarchx » Tue, 17Mar21 01:47

Now, I don't see as many details as Mortze, and can't offer you a lot of advise on lightings and technicalities - but I do agree, that the bike is wrong.
I think it's wrong because of the lights on it which should be more subtle, and the reflections are too bright, compared to everything else on the picture. I think you should tone those 2 things down.

Apart from that, I think it's a great render.

If I should add anything to it, it would be something make the background less uniform.
Either a pot on one of the stairs, or a plant between/next to the stairs to supplement the partial tree you can see, would help bring the picture together I think.
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby MaxCarna » Tue, 17Mar21 02:47

Well, those are advices from an amateur

There is a distant light from the right, I believe it should be a little more warm (yelow to orange) to look like the end of the afternoon. The temperature of light maybe can make it.

The character seems a little bit fat, I think he is strong but the clothes are hiding that. Maybe play with the smooth modifier that Mortze once suggested to me. They can fit him better.

I really disliked the bike, it seems that came out from a sci-fi scene. I don't know if your game will pass in the future. But the guy and the background seems to combine with a Harley Davidson style byke. Look this one: https://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestu ... bike/52050

But if you really like this one, try to reduce light intensity from the blue and white lights. Next to his right hand, just below, the metal seems to be reflecting a really intense light that is not there.

I personally believe that I haven't exhausted Daz's resources yet to use Photoshop, for example. With the results I'm seeing I guess I will never need to use it.

You are going very well
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Eldormain » Tue, 17Mar21 04:55

Thank you for the timely feedback. I appreciate it from all sorts, writers, programmers, renderers, readers/players. It all helps.

I assume that adding a dirty shader would tone down the shiny quality given the way IRay works. Anyone have experience with that? Of course, the lighting itself is the main issue.

There is a purpose to the bike choice. Originally, I did have more of a Harley styled bike but as the character developed this one fit better. This bike is very customizable and may very well look a bit different in the end.

I love the feedback. It's all about the learning and not about the ego. I appreciate the time you all take with these posts.

[img]images/icones/icon13.gif[/img]
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Mik » Tue, 17Mar21 06:48

I'm with Mortze here with the rule of thirds and the camera focus, a nice DOF effect would make character and bike more prominent.

You will find this in the camera properties, where you can play with focal distance and f/stop...but a lot of the framing also depends on what you are trying to express with this image. Is it like he is waiting outside for his girlfriend Victoria 7, or is he proud to present his new bike...?

The glowing seems to be an Iray emissive effect, you will find that in the surface tab in the surface editor (for the different surfaces), where (if so)
are values for intensity and light color.

But it is a nice picture and if you ask ten people, you will get ten different opinions.... [img]images/icones/icon14.gif[/img]
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Mortze » Tue, 17Mar21 15:10

I'm still intrigued about how you got that bloom effect on the bike but not anywhere else. Normally, when you apply a bloom effect filter in the Render Settings, it applies to every highlight in the picture.
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Mik » Tue, 17Mar21 15:49

And i would bet money that some light emitting surfaces are (partially) involved, at least this futuristic bike offers some "Iray Glowing Surfaces".... [img]images/icones/icon13.gif[/img] [img]images/icones/icon14.gif[/img]
Or maybe an unbelivable bright additional light right of the camera regarding this strong shadow of his thigh at the bike (plus a "glossy like hell" setting for certain surfaces) ?
And something went wrong with this surface below the wind shield, it seems that it has some kind of "Stone Shader" applied.

https://www.daz3d.com/botmoto

Anyway, I wouldn't feel save on my motorbike with that metal sheet at the front wheel so close to the ground...
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Eldormain » Wed, 17Mar22 00:40

Haha, so true Mik but that is what I have come to enjoy from these boards. All the different opinions on things. Hearing a different perspective is great when learning. I don't recall the bike sitting so low in my image when I had first placed it. I must have moved it or something else a smidgen at some point. Plus with all the customization this bike has I am sure it will be a simple fix.

Mortze... idiot savant? I don't know how I made that happen. Honestly, as I learn things out of my norm I always feel like I am doing something wrong or less efficient then I could until I can replicate something with the same results. If I figure out how I did it I will share.
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Mik » Wed, 17Mar22 04:54

I know, I've read your first answer....sometimes you (or at least I) experience some kind of "displacement jump" just changing items/ body parts etc. by clicking it in the viewport....or sometimes the selection changes without being noticed (playing around in the different options and tabs), and then you change values and think "Hey, why does nothing happen", but something else has moved.... [img]images/icones/icon13.gif[/img]
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Eldormain » Tue, 17Mar28 11:32

Hello Again. I appreciate your posts and revisited the image keeping your feedback in mind. Here for your perusal 2.0.

Image

As before there are things I still want to rework, ie: I want him looking at the camera, perhaps twisting his body a little in that direction, tweaking his clothing. I tried to crop the pic for the site here keeping the composition in mind. Also, I do need to alter the lights some in regards to position and even temperature. Feel free to voice your opinions.

Cheers

Uncropped link

http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy53 ... est_02.jpg
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"Don't only practice your art, but force your way into its secrets; art deserves that, for it and knowledge can raise man to the Divine." - Ludwig van Beethoven
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Sarchx » Tue, 17Mar28 15:14

That's a big improvement, compared to the first one. Am looking forward to see it with the changed lighting.

A suggeestion to the clothing could be, to change the jacket shader, to a leather one - and/or give him some sunglasses in his hand (if he isn't gonna have a helmet somewhere.)
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Re: Render Advice and Feedback

Postby Mortze » Wed, 17Mar29 16:00

First of all, and most important advice I could give you or anyone:

Image

Secondly, the one thing that upset me the most about the first pic (the bloom filter like effect on the bike) has been removed.

Save than that I think it's well rendered but I can't say much more without knowing your intentions on the pic. My first impression is that it looks like a picture to promote some catalog fashion clothes where the models pose the best to show the clothes. The bike is an accessory and the light isn't dramatic. A noon sunny day picture is just that. Doesn't allow for much impact like a lower angle sun, like sunrise for instance.

I like the girl's pose but because of your heretical choice I can't see much of her. That's a shame.

I also like the shaders on this one.

I would have personally worked a low angle cam shot to put focus on the bike (that would have been my objective anyway, don't know what's yours).
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