Advising a novice developer

[Skelaturi]

Lets dive in this new section of the forum as the 1st one. Few questions that were on my mind for some time.

A. If one would start with making erotic games, what kind of computer spec recommendation would one need?

B. With so many engines/tools to create a game on, what are the pros and cons any of them? Examples ease of use, programming skills that are needed.

C. And for those who already created games and used graphics: Why did you choose to use 3d renders/ real pictures / cartoons /anime / stick figures . What are the pros and cons of those.

D. And for starting creators which of all things considered, should be a good combo. For the different kind of starters: The programmer, the writer and the graphical designer (these are the 3 types i got in my head, add more if there are).

PS. If these are not questions that should belong here, cause i misunderstood or anything DESTROY this topic. Send it to oblivion. But if it belongs here i would love to here some answers, cause its itching inside to start something. But I really do not know where to start and if i should, cause i got no programming skills, my grammar is terrible and creating 3d renders don't get me started on those. But at least i got stories in my head. Just wondering if i should write stuff down and take a leap.

[Squeeky]

I am personally comfortable for you to ask questions which require a more or less generalised answer. By that I mean, raise questions about techniques, computer configurations, etc, but if it relates directly to a specific game, then Projects is the place.

Now, while you may have asked a question, or prompted a conversation starter, we cannot always expect that to be followed up in a topic which directly addresses such an issue.

[tlaero]

A) The machine spec depends on whether or not you're making the art. If you're just writing and programming, pretty much anything will work. If you're making the art, it'll depend on a few things. Are you hand drawing the art? Are you rendering it in DAZ3D/Poser? If you're hand drawing the art, you just need a machine capable of running the art program you plan to use (typically Photoshop or Gimp). If you're rendering it in DAZ3D, I suggest a fairly beefy machine with a 3d graphics card. The artists on the board can tell you more about this.

B) I use Adventure Creator for my games, as does Wolfschadowe (BEW) and Mortze (Pandora). Other people have used in in the past as well. For instance, Super and Syl used AC on their first game, but have switched to WBA for their second. They'll have to tell you what AC wasn't doing for them that WBA is.

Pro for AC is that it's extremely easy to write a game with or without animations, and you don't need to do very much programming at all. At the same time, you have the option to do an arbitrarily large amount of programming if you'd like. We've released both very large and complex games with AC as well as very small and simple ones. Another pro is that the developer (me) writes these games, so I've got a really good feel for what is needed and what features to add to speed up the process. Another pro is that we're all here on this board and happy to help and answer questions, or add features to AC if you need them. Another pro is that it comes with some tutorials that should get you started really quickly. A con is that it requires Windows. If you're on another OS, AC won't work for you.

Other people will need to speak to the pros and cons of the other engines. I'm sticking with AC. (-:

C) If you're rendering, I suggest Daz3d. It's free and easier to use than the other posing programs. With Daz, you're more about "posing" characters than "drawing" them. This has a shorter learning curve than drawing or painting does. It tends to be faster too (I can pose a scene in MUCH less time than it would take me to draw it).

D) For me, I do the writing and the programming, and my partner (now Mortze, formerly Phreaky) does the art. You're right that the 3 main disciplines are writer, artist, and programmer. If you're using AC, though, and your game isn't terribly complex, there's so little programming that it's questionable whether you'd need for that to be a separate person.

Tlaero

[sylakone2]

My 2 cents lol

A) This depends on which kind of program you use for instance if you are using Daz3d with 3delight or poser with firefly their default render engines. You need a minimum of 8GB of RAM, a good CPU like an I7 8 core or if money is a problem an 8x AMD will suffice, the Graphic card will only help you with the posing of your scene it will not contribute to the rendering speeds so a reasonable mid range card is all that's required.
For the physically base render engines like IRAY, octane, and the new Superfly with poser 11, you really need a good NVIDIA video card like the GTX780 TI or the GTX980 TI the more the better.

B) I use both AC and WBA I like both of them and there is good support here for both as you know. The main reason we switched to WBA in the first place was really just to try out what soulmate had put forward.
The main pros for both is you really don't need to be a programmer they are both really easy to use and thanks to the great support here if you need something they can not provide there is plenty of people on here which are happy to help you.
The pros of WBA are that it is a web based engine so you can use it on any computer it also creates a single data.js file with all of the pages inside it. Most html games tend to have a bunch of html pages for each page of the game in them so it makes it easier for players to cheat and ruin some of the surprises. It also has a really good overview which gives you a map showing you all of your pages as they link together in the browser and recently soulmate has added some really good new features like the show if option etc.
The cons is that you need to run a mini webserver in the background for the build.html and the debug.html although in the latest release soulmate included a very easy script file to run a mini webserver in the background.
The games itself will work on most browsers with no need for a webserver.
The pros for AC well Tlaero is the best to describe them so I don't need to repeat them.
Both a really easy to use and are great for the beginner.
I have tried the other engines like rags, unity and so on but you need much more skill in these and rags can tend to be very buggy and costs money.

C) I second Tlaeros suggestions here for a beginner the best is to use DAZ 3D as it's free and is quite easy to pick up. Poser is also good but does cost a lot of money the only things that poser has over DAZ is the cloth room which allows you to make quite realistic cloth effects like a draped dress and so on, and the material room which allows you to really tweak all of the materials and textures unfortunately you really need to know what you are doing here so a much more steeper learning curve to really get the extra benefits.
The one thing that really stands out with DAZ now is the IRAY intergration it does not take much to learn how to use it and the renders are so much better than the cpu based render engines like 3delight and firefly. If you have a good video card they also render faster unfortunately with a mid range card it is much slower so you do need the hardware to really benefit from it.

D) Again I agree with Tlaero here as well. I do both graphics and writing but Super is a much better writer than myself.
Like you I do have many stories in my head but I find it difficult to get that down on paper as it were.

Hope that helps

Sy

[Mortze]

Not sure if this is the group to post this Topic. This group is more for technical topics, like how to avoid poke through in the clothes of my model, or how to avoid sharp shadows, etc..
IMO this questions should be adressed in the General Chat group.
That said, here's my opinion:

A) Pretty much agree with what Tlaero and Sky said. If you’re going to program and code, and write only, any post 2001 machine will do. For drawn art, same thing, but it has to support your drawing software, either Photoshop, Ilustrator or Manga Studio for example. I’d suggest a good and big monitor though, with great color contrast.
For 3D art you need a good machine. I did DwE on a ICore i5 - 480M 2.66GHz, Radeon HD6370M 512mb Graphic card, 4GB Ram and I sweated. Some pics where 45 minutes long to render each, some 1h plus, like the ones in the bookshop.
Now, for Pandora and Redemption for Jessika I used a ICore i7-5820K 3.3GHz 15Mb, Motherboard Asus X99-A, Asus GTX970 4GB Graphic Card, 32 Ram, and an IPS 27’’ Asus monitor, that renders at an average 1/6 ratio from what I used before. This setting only allows me to render using a CPU intensive rendering engine like 3DEngine. Like Sky said, if you want to use a GPU intensive rendering engine like IRay you’ll have to boost your graphic cards. Wolfshadowe once told me that a minimum of 10GB of GPU is necessary. My goal is to improve that. So, yeah, for 3D rendering you need a powerfull setting.

B) I only know about AC and Adrift. I hesitated if Pandora should be more written orientated or graphic. Tlaero good help led me to choose AC. I knew I’d have a good tutor using that platform. But I like Adrift very much. The pros of Adrift is that you don’t have a limit of the lines you can put. AC has a 4 lines limit per page. Also, Adrift allows more interactivity in that you can program gazillions commands for the player to find and type to do this and that. AC is less interactive. But I think they fulfill 2 very different roles. For AC you don’t need much or any programing skills. For Adrift you need some. And when I say programing skill I’m not referring to actual coding languages and programing expertise. I’m talking about logical and focused mind, more proper to a programmer than to an artist. Lots of small details to take into account. I suck at that.

C) I’d second what Tlaero and Sky said again, but they didn’t really answered the question. The pros and cons of 3d art, draw, real pictures, stick figures, etc is mostly up to what you can and are willing to do. Stick figures are easy but don’t express much. Real pictures are easy too to find and work with but they make the game somehow unbelievable because people know they are from somewhere else. Besides, there are property issues you have to deal with. Drawing is, in my opinion, the pinnacle of the art. You create, almost free of charge, and from nothing. You only have to pay for the material (pencils, erasers, sheets, scanner, software, etc) you work with. But to draw good you must have a godly talent. Those artists are the best. Cons; it takes a huge amount of time. Lastly, for 3D art you also have to acquire the material (computer and software) and the content (props, figures, clothes, penises, yes, penises). And that costs you your skin. The pros are that it’s somehow easier to work with than full drawing. I say somehow because it’s a thing to make a 3d picture, it’s another to make an awesome one. For the later you need huge talent that borders the godly talent of the drawing artist. You need to have the sensitivity to make a good camera angle and good lighting. Only that. If you are a master of camera angling and lighting you’ll make a rendering of a trash can a sublime picture. Of course, some lucky dudes are born with talent. The other 99% of us have to make lots of shitty draws and renders before learning to do anything that is passable.

D) Again, it depends on what you are good at. If you’re only good with writing then I’d say go for a writing only game like Adrift. If you’re a noob with programing go for AC. If you’re a noob at everything but have great ideas for games only, well, find people who don’t have good ideas but are good at programing, writing or making art, to use your idea. In my opinion, without disregard of what Tlaero and Sky said, it’s better to work with someone else. Sure, Adrift and AC allow for a person to make the game by herself, but I’m not talking about skills. I’m talking about debating ideas. I, myself, know that when, as a creator, you have an idea, you become focused on it and lose perspective. Well, it’s good to seek some outer perspective. Ask someone about this or that idea, what they think or would do differently. I seeked and still seek Tlaero’s opinion on Pandora. Besides her expertise and experience in writing games and fantasy novels and stories, she is a representative of the beautiful gender and I think we men, sometimes, need a female overview on how characters (mostly girls) would behave or think. And of course, working with someone else will allow you to correct each other errors, or share opinions. Tlaero makes good suggestions on the pics I render and I myself also suggest some things on the whole story plot and dialogues. Lastly, and I learned from it the hard way, find someone to test and proof-read your work.

[Skelaturi]

Not sure if this is the group to post this Topic. This group is more for technical topics, like how to avoid poke through in the clothes of my model, or how to avoid sharp shadows, etc..
IMO this questions should be adressed in the General Chat group.

I respect your opinion on my question and i respect all others who answered my general questions so far. And hopefully there will be a few more under this post that give me and others some insight on the other engines/tools that are out there.
The reason i ask is: that i am at a stage of where should i start, what engine, what renders i am able to handle it with my computer. A stage that goes before all of the technical questions you probably wanted me to ask.

[Trucla]

Hi Skelaturi!

A.- About the machine I agree with Tlaero, and don't need to add anything.

B.- Here it depends on what kind of game you want to build.

If you want an (A)IF game you'll have several choices: TADS, Inform, Quest, Adrift, RAGS. I know there are more but those are the ones I've tried. I've put aside TADS and Inform as they are rather complicated for the curious non-programmer that I am. I've tried Quest (version 4) but I didn't like the almost constant editing scripts mixed with point-and-click features. So I tried Adrift which I didn't dislike up to the moment when I found RAGS (in its version 0.4.4.2). Now in its version 2.4.16 (don't do anything with version 3.x during the next 3/4 years) RAGS has two serous advantages over all the engines I know:
a)- No more "guess the verb";
b)- It's the best marrying text with images, always adjusting the last to the appropriated box.
Over Adrift, RAGS has also the advantage of being much lighter in designer and player.

If you want a game fully based on images and with little text, then I think AC is your friend!

C.- I must say that I'm a zero in which building images is concerned. So I'll pass that part.

D.- You said

But at least i got stories in my head

So try one engine, find a buddy for building the images, write your text in Dutchglish and finally find a fellow who writes in a good and error-free English. I'll be waiting for your première!

Cheers!

[tlaero]

Not sure if this is the group to post this Topic. This group is more for technical topics, like how to avoid poke through in the clothes of my model, or how to avoid sharp shadows, etc..
IMO this questions should be adressed in the General Chat group.

Totally disagree here. This group is a creators workshop. I'd say anything creators want to talk about wrt creating stuff should be fair game. We're much more likely to have too little discussion than too much.

I agree with everything else you said, though. Especially the benefits of collaborating. We definitely help each other out with our respective roles a bunch, and our games are better for it.

One tiny correction. AC doesn't limit you to 4 lines of text. It's just that if you want the game to fit on a small monitor, you're limited to a small number of lines. AC itself will let you do as much as you want. That said, since adrift scrolls the text, you're right that it's much more suitable for long passages of text.

Tlaero

[Mortze]

Totally disagree here. This group is a creators workshop. I'd say anything creators want to talk about wrt creating stuff should be fair game. We're much more likely to have too little discussion than too much.

We don't disagree much but I'll have to disagree with your disagrement This group is intended for technical support as in "my 12V engine is making a funny noise, what mechanical help can you get me" and not so much as "what's the better car for me to buy?".
It's supposed to discuss very focused and narrow subjects. The way Skelaturi put it (damn you tulip boy! You're making me and m'lady argue) was a general question for several general topics of discussion.

One tiny correction. AC doesn't limit you to 4 lines of text. It's just that if you want the game to fit on a small monitor, you're limited to a small number of lines. AC itself will let you do as much as you want. That said, since adrift scrolls the text, you're right that it's much more suitable for long passages of text.

I stand corrected. Didn't know about that.

[Squeeky]

Wait up.
This is awkward.

As I see it there is "right" and "wrong" in several offerings.
Let's offer no blame towards anyone in particular, this is a learning experience for us all.

To be in the spirit of how I would see that this Forum should run would have been to take a specific point that Skelaturi raised and address it within a thread of its own rather than addressing every point together. In doing the latter we might just as well consider this with "General chat" as Mortze earlier indicated.

Can we please refrain from adding to generalised comments as if advising Skelaturi on a "General chat" issue or what might otherwise have been been a "Projects" matter, and take specific points into threads of their own?

[Ehlanna]

A. Pretty much as everyone has said - practically any computer would serve to write a game on, you'd be more likely to have OS issues than hardware ones.

B. A difficult one .. you could split engines up into a variety of types, each of which could be valid and also pointless at the same time. Some people like 'point and click', others like 'type in commands'. Some like graphics-rich games, others bask in rolling prose. So removing the final result from the equation we get to what you actually asked about, the creation! ALL of this is personal opinion, YMMV! Adrift (up to 4) is quite a good system, with good hand-holding but the event creation is clunky. TADS is very powerful but quite complex, both versions 2 and 3. Inform is ... yeah, 'write a game in natural English': don't think so! Powerful features but obtuse. RAGS has nice features but the editing and moving about of lines of code can be a bit clunky. This is not ALL game creators!

C. I used real photos *cough ahem* borrowed from t'internet. Now I'd most likely use stuff created in Daz Studio. Pros of real is, well, they're real! Cons of real is that unless you have a pet model or three what is there is what you got. Pros of 3D is that you can pretty much generate what you need. Cons are that the images are not real and quality can be an issue.

D. Those would be the major components of a game. Who does them is less important than they get done!

[Squeeky]

Please,
Read above

Wait up.
This is awkward.
.....
Can we please refrain from adding to generalised comments as if advising Skelaturi on a "General chat" issue or what might otherwise have been been a "Projects" matter, and take specific points into threads of their own?

In Skelaturi's opening he notes:

Few questions that were on my mind for some time.

and then goes on to list 4 points.

I'll repeat, I believe that to be in the spirit of which this Forum was intended, each of those points should have been given their own individual importance by being addressed in separate threads, and then allowing us to variously discuss our individual points of view on that specific matter. As this stands no one point is the focus.

[Greyelf]

Can I suggest this thread be locked and replaced with specific threads, one for each of the related question/topic.

[Squeeky]

That is exactly what I have in mind; already contacted Shark about just that. I could have done it but .... I think .... just maybe Shark should have a voice in that.

[tlaero]

Just my opinion, but I think we shouldn't get too bent out of shape on how threads are done here. Much better for a potential game developer to post a question in the "wrong" way, get help, and decide to start making a game than to be afraid to post because he or she is worried about "breaking the rules" and thus never becomes a creator.

What we do as creators is terrifying on so many levels. To come here and post questions means you've got to speak up in a place where you're potentially a stranger. It also means you've got to admit you don't know something, which is hard for most people. And then, the thought of making something and showing it to the angry masses of the internet can be quite debilitating.

The only reason I ever started posting on the lagoon was that I was happy with the open and respectful way you folks were treating Ehlanna. And, even then, I obfuscated my gender for a significant amount of time (that's why I'm "Tlaero" instead of "Tlaera"). I'd like for this forum to be one that's so open and supportive that the next "me" reads it and says, "I think I may be comfortable posting there."

So let's not do anything to make a potential creator's life more difficult. This forum won't fall apart if we get a single thread with 4 questions instead of 4 threads with one question.

Tlaero