Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby erana » Sun, 09Oct04 15:18

An erotic game CAN benefice from the same tricks than any other game, because we're looking for an erotic GAME; if we wanted only to look for pr0n, that's what Google is for [img]kator/smiley196.gif[/img]

Anything that enhances he replayability is a sure bet. I've lost the count of times I've played LOP-BE, with its small-dificulty puzzles in an overally complex game, or the mentioned Slave Maker (even if its tematic is not my cup of tea). But games that are the same every time you play them are things of the moment.

In short, first and foremost try to make a good game. The erotic is easier to add into the game than the game into the erotic. There is adult TETRIS, for the love of...

For what a game should NOT have, things that would annoy the player. Motion-sickness screens, flash-specific right button hijacking (let us change the quality at least!), mini-games that cause carpal tunnel syndrome, long transitions and pauses betwen scenes (or even lines of text), etc. Since it's actually easier not to include this kind of things that to include them, that should come as a good news for game developers... ;)
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby coder » Sun, 09Oct04 16:03

What makes games stand out?

Good graphics.
A believable plot. Porn always is fantasy, it's just more fun if you can imagine it to be true. Proper English is important too. If the English is so bad, you can't even understand it, there can't be any story.

A bit of challenge. "Just pick the right choice" games, like the meet&fuck series, have no challenge at all. The graphics are great though on most of them.

Non-linearity. If you can follow different paths, you can replay the game several times. It automatically adds some challenge too, because you need to make different choices in the beginning, to complete the different paths and you can't immediately see the consequences.

Original puzzles. Take the beach scene in ArianeB. It seems like a dialogue where you need to pick the right choice, but in fact you need to click in the picture, to hold her hand, hold her, kiss her etc.
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby AngryH » Sun, 09Oct04 18:47

Considering the fact that almost everyone of you is doing this for the glory and you probably don't have the time and money to develop a big-budget video game, I do believe that a good flash/web based video game should posses:

- a story. Sex is gooood, but sex in video-games must have some sort of plot, otherwise is just click'n'click'n'click.

- good graphics, of course. I personally don't mind if it's hentai, or real pictures, or poser, as long as the models are hot.

- no perversion, animals, pregnant women... Just some good ol' guy on girl action is good with me (girl on girl is good too, and most of all, my personal favorite, girl-guy-girl ;) )

My "perfect" online game should have the non-linearity and (thus) the longevity of A spell for All or Masq, the game play of Lession of Passion (the true masterpiece of the genre, IMHO), the graphics, ideas and the "realistic feeling" of Date Ariane, and the sexual interactivity of Shark's and Pussoy's games.

That said, if I had the possibility to develop (or to pay for the creation of) a big-budget game, I would definitely create a porn version of 7 Sins, with a bit of Larry-like huomor and expansions just as in the Sims.

Yep, I am an utopist...
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby Franco » Sun, 09Oct04 23:04

For a non-linear dating game, take a look at Get a Life at this address http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/425304

There is no sex, but it's a pretty good game. In my opinion, something similar to Get a Life, but expanded and with sex would be very good game.
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby Tjommi » Mon, 09Oct05 02:08

I guess I struck a nerve with this one. Thank you guys getting involved and sharing your opinions. I might as well talk a little bit about what I like instead of focusing on what pisses me off.

* Lessons of passion is without doubt the adult game that have kept me entertained for the longest period of time. They took an allready tested and well liked formula of dating sims, but they took it to the next lvl. What kept me entertained with that game was all the details that you could puzzle with. It was my " first love " sort of speaking when it comes to free adult games. I played alot of other fun flash games, but LOP was the only one that I went back to play again and again.

* The next one that caught my attention was don't wake her and late night office romance by Shark. Those game got me very curious about who this shark fellow was, and it made me start lurking around here on his game page and this forum. I was actually lurking here in the background for a couple of years before I wrote my first post. Anyway I am rambling off topic here. What Caught me with Sharks games is the same thing that caught you all. First of all the graphics were decent, but the most important thing was that he had bothered to try to make an actual scenario with a short but interesting story around it. The combination of searching for the right spot to interact and the reward that followed made these game pretty fast into favourites of mine.

* ArianneB got me hooked right away, and given that I am still playing with that game every time the creator or Arnulf & Co builds update this will push LOP down from the throne when speaking of keeping me entertained for the longest time. What got me hooked there was at the time it was superior every other game out there( that was free to play ) when you think about graphics, and the multiple choices gave the game a very high replay value. Allthough beeing pretty easy going if you rubbed her right, Arianne could really burn you if you didn't. The story was very important.

* Bonetown is.... just bonetown. I really loved the combination of action and adult action and all the missions really made this entertaining. It's the only adult game that I have ever payed for witout regretting doing so.

* Other games that really caught my attention and that I have had alot of fun with are Playboy the mansion and 7 sins. Playboy the mansion kept me entertained for quite a while because it was a strategy game about building an empire with a very naughty tvist to it, and 7 sins because it had really well written scenarios and fantastic humour. That game made me laugh out loud several times, and that really doesn't happen to often when I play computer games. The timing in that game was great.

* And I would like add something that I haven't talked about in this posting yet. I Agree with Erena that some topics we just don't touch. Getting a pussy thrown in my face (read on my screen) really doesn't do all that for me. Scene one - open door, sceen two - fuck - game over. However if you got a work a bit for it, and the game manages to get you engaged emotionally, or just making you work a bit then things get alot more interesting alot faster. I am all for hardcore but not without forplay. If that is what I want I just sit down with a regular porn movie. When I play games, I want to do just that. I wish to spend time poundering the best way to reach my goal.


Ok so what we got here now is that I like games that:
- Got a well written story
- Got though out scenarios
- Got multiple ways/ or a well written interesting way to solve the game.
- Got Good ( at least not crappy )graphics
- Is creative, and if not innovative present familiar content in a different wrapping.

There are many other games that I could and perhaps should have been talking about but I choosed these here to illustrate what I was talking about when I have been trying to show what I think is a good adult game.
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby ExLibris » Mon, 09Oct05 12:38

I definitely applaud the intentions behind this thread. For me there are five things that make a good game: sex, plot, characters, writing and gameplay. Unfortunately a lot of games I've seen tend to emphasise one over the others.

I'm not so sure about releasing trial versions though. I've seen that done on other sites, and mostly it just leads to a proliferation of unfinished and abandoned games, although that's better than nothing.

Having tried (and failed) to write several games now, I'd recommend starting small. Some sort of contest, with limitations on the amount of content could be a way to stimulate interest.

Just my $0.02
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby erana » Tue, 09Oct06 01:24

Trial versions are OK; unfinished games are not.

Example, Slave Maker 2, which is constantly being improved by its autor based upon the fans' input.

(Note that Slave Maker 2 is now a diferent game than Slave Maker; made by a diferent author, and including a whole load of diferent fetishes (most of them mercifully optional) while the character manages to somehow retain the relative high moral ground(!), a nice trick indeed that manages to cater to a very varied audience, from the more perverted to the more vanilla players. A noteworthy tactic for any developer)
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby TheBrain » Tue, 09Oct06 03:40

leonizer wrote :
I wounder if you all can describe some elements which, in your opinion, erotic flash game should have. This opinion could be a guide line for our future productions.


I think it's hard to describe these elements since there are many themes of erotic based games. A dating sim has a very different structure than say the 'puzzle animation games' of Shark and Pusooy, and therefore the things that make a game in either genre 'good' are different.
Of course there are some common things (replayability, good graphics, story, etc. etc.) that good games will have at least some of.

But the things that make a game challenging really depend on the genre. For example, a good dating sim will have lots of things to explore, different ways of doing stuff, events, etc. You could say the challenge is in exploring the things that are relevant to your goal.
But the challenge in a puzzle-type game is simply having a good puzzle to solve. As I mentioned before I think the puzzles in Sharks and Pusooys games are mostly simplistic, easy to solve. To take the other end of the spectrum there's Orgasm Girl, which turns a similar game concept into a quite hard puzzle (on a sidenote: in case you didn't know, Orgasm Girl 2 is coming out soon. I know I'm looking forward to it).

I guess for most of us the 'ideal' erotic game will incorporate elements from all of the different themes. But I don't think it's realistic to focus on such a blend, doing that properly will simply take too much time (even if you managed to put together a team of several developers and artists).

So rather I guess I will repeat something like erana already said. Any erotic game developer should remember that they are creating a game first and foremost. Think about what challenge you are giving the player and how hard it is (this will require at least some betatesting). If you can combine this challenge with an erotic theme that would be excellent (Orgasm Girl being a good example), but you shouldn't trade the challenge for the erotic. And be creative, dare to try new things, there must be some game mechanic that works well in an erotic setting that nobody has yet thought of.
Now having developed some game concepts myself (non-erotic though) I know that coming up with something good is incredibly hard, even if you're not confined to the erotic genre. So it's also good to build on existing concepts (for example, Virtual Date Girls has been heavily influenced by Date Ariane, but it is still fun to play). Even small changes or combinations of concepts might lead to interesting new concepts.

As a final note to leonizer personally: In my opinion your games have gone quite a bit downhill since Lesson of Passion. Maybe it's an idea to rehash that genre and mix in some of your newer graphical stuff?
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby Tjommi » Wed, 09Oct07 23:12

Ah I didn't take notice that you are the one responsible for LoP Leonizer. Fun fun. That explains on why I wrote about them, when I could have adressed that part directly to you. When it comes to ideas for future games. Have you ever played 7 sins ? The reason I refer to that game is because as I wrote in my previous post, that game have perhaps the best timing that I have ever encounterered from a humerous point of view. The games that I have played in total that have managed to make me laught out loud because it was genuinly funny not just embarrasing can be counted on 1 max 2 hands. Our hero's ablility to end up in absurd situations combined with his complete lack of morals give a winner combination. There are allso a couple of scenario's there that are worth " borrowing " or building upon. I think that TheBrain is onto something when he say that you should try to pick up and brush off the LOP consept.

I at least like to puzzle a little ( very important a little, and I want distractions from the main goal. Another varition that I would suggest that instead of giving a 100 days to complete a task on, say that you win the game when you complete the task. Creating your own graphics gotta be a hell of alot more work, but it allso gives you alot more freedom.

Last and perhaps most important of all, let us at lest feel that we are in control of the developement of the story. What you did right with LoP and what meet and fuck for example does very very wrong is that you got no choice in what's happening. YOu just click to see what happens next, and when you are done you never play it again.LoP was set in a given pattern but all the distractions, the missions, the addictional girls etc. etc. spiced things up so much that it gave the game high replay value. Personally what I would like would be that we could choose different paths and reach different goals. Like you do in for instance ArianneB and chaotic's datingsimulators. I know these are not quite the same genre but it get my point through.

I guess that I have argued myself into the conclution that I like dating simulators and I like adult aventure games.
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby almeida67 » Thu, 09Oct08 02:45

Really, this forum is interesting, and about all - not all - the people have given great ideas. For the moment being I am trying to resume the different interventions, and perhaps I will participate, if I get something new to say.
Meantime I just suggest that you open and read the quite interesting stuff you can find in
http://alteraction.com/discussion/
Masq is a great game, one of the best I ever played. I never could get all the situations. I don't even know if I can call it erotic, but additive, yes, for sure, and sexy too. And with really great high end graphics.
But the topics in this site can give a lot of ideas to this forum.
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby AngryH » Thu, 09Oct08 18:09

Ok so what we got here now is that I like games that:
- Got a well written story
- Got though out scenarios
- Got multiple ways/ or a well written interesting way to solve the game.
- Got Good ( at least not crappy )graphics
- Is creative, and if not innovative present familiar content in a different wrapping.


We all seem to agree on this. And now, the million dollar question: how come no adult game has ever been devoloped following these (theoretically simple) rules? I don't mean your games (shark, leonizer, chaotic...) but those "big-budget games" I was referring to in my previous post.

Japanese Hentai games are crazy: they have either a great story and no interactivity ("visual novels") or no story and a lot of interactivity (Illusion games). Nobody has ever came out with the idea of mixing them?

"Western games" are clearly too afraid of being labelled as "porn". Which might be a legitimate marketing strategy, if the games weren't (or could be) rated "Adult only" anyway. 7 Sins, Larry, Playboy, Singles 2... if you don't have some mods, you cannot even see full frontal nudity, let alone "proper sex".

Returning to our purposes, I guess a good place to start would be the "Eros Games" and Hungirly series. They are nothing more than a collection of (mostly soft-core) photos, they are definitely too short and thus not worth paying for, but they have some kind of challenge and spicy (yet realistic) scenarios.

As I said, for someone who doesn't do it full time, taking the good things of those games and making them better would be a great achievement.
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby ArlVaGent » Sun, 09Oct11 07:02

Tjommi and Angry H

Thanks for saying so eloquently what I was thinking as well.

I wonder if real-life dating for many of us felt (or feels, for you younger guys)like a game. Hence we love the Groundhog-Day-like chance of being able to keep repeating it until we get it right. And the reward for getting it right? Excitation - both visual and mental.
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby Franco » Mon, 09Oct12 02:00

As I have said before, I think one of the best sex games is Singles 2. I like the relationship and converstional aspects of the game.

If I was going to design an sdult game, I would include those elements. For example a conversation tree something like this:

Friendly talk
Introduce yourself: "Hi, my name is Franco."
Ask her name: "What is your name?"
Tell about your work: "I work in advertising."
Ask about her work: "Where do you work?"
Tell about family ...
etc..

Romantic talk
Compliment her eyes: "You have beautiful eyes."
Compliment her personality: "You are easy to talk to."
etc ...

Sexy Talk
etc ...


Then I would also include answering questions based on her answers, like with the dating games.

What I described above would not be all of the adult game, but would be part of it.

That would introduce an element of emotion, communication and interactivity that would be fairly easy to achieve and without needing a lot of graphics.
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby ExLibris » Mon, 09Oct12 02:45

That would introduce an element of emotion, communication and interactivity that would be fairly easy to achieve and without needing a lot of graphics.


Sounds like a vote for text adventures to me!

Unfortunately I'd have to disagree about it being fairly easy to achieve, except at a basic level.

I don't know exactly what kind of game you were contemplating, but unless all of the interactions are non-branching and the responses don't change based on any conditions it would be a lot of work to implement that many options. Even then it wouldn't be fully interactive, since the NPC is entirely passive.

Interactivity in games is largely illusory, mainly in order to keep the amount of work down. One reason that 'visual novels' offer a good story is because they keep the player tightly on the rails.

Probably the closest any game comes to that level of interactivity is Facade, which benefited from being created by two experienced game designers who specialised in AI.

A couple of articles on dialog systems that may be of interest:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3719/
http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2009/05/column_homer_in_silicon_the_co_1.php
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Re: Sharks Lagoon as a game developer forum

Postby Franco » Mon, 09Oct12 05:39

I wasn't thinking about a text adventure (or interactive fiction) type game which I am familiar with and have discussed here before, but more about multiple choice. Probably entering my name was not a good example, but it is not uncommon for games to have a function for the player to enter his name.

A point system would allow some variability. If your points are too low and you attempt a romantic or sexy conversational gambit, then you won't succeed and will lose some points.

It was an idea I had. I would expect the conversation tree to be combined with other gameplay elements, eg, point and click, etc.
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