Saving Chloe (En, Sp, Fr)

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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby danigonz » Thu, 18Jan18 16:23

tlaero wrote:I just uploaded an update to the game that adds a Spanish translation by Moskys an Sirio. Thanks folks!

Tlaero


Great! Although I always prefer the original versions, It's always nice to be able to play in your own language.So, thanks for the work, Moskys and Sirio.
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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby Mortze » Thu, 18Jan18 17:53

moskys wrote:Re Chloe's power

In my opinion Morland's power works like that: he imagines a plan and sees its outcome, but he also knows that if Chloe is involved this outcome he sees might not be the actual one. And that includes killing her because obviously she would be involved. He doesn't know if she would escape the murder attempt, or if this murder would lead to he being actually arrested even if he's seeing otherwise. And this happens with every single decision about her. So he just accepts that having Chloe around and 'controlled' is a small risk he's willing to take. Morland thinks that giving Chloe some minor asignments which could end in a fail is better than making some other 'big' decisions about her. Problem is he can't imagine she's brave enough to operate on her own against him - and of course he cannot foresee that. On the other hand, when something goes wrong he would instantly suspect she's done something about it (as we see when Xara escapes from the dungeon - keeping her alive down there was a 'perfect' plan plotted by Morland in which Chloe was not initially involved, so when he sees Xara is free he knows it's thanks to Chloe). So Chloe must be quite careful to not interfere in other plans but her asignments. This way Morland would think that these failures are just a consequence of her lack of capabilities or 'backbone' and not a sabotage.

The way he abuses her shows this frustration because he has an awesome power but Chloe's mere existence means he'd never be 100% sure of his actions. But it's also a way to 'guarantee' her loyalty through fear - the only way he knows. Of course, he doesn't even imagine that this behaviour it's absolutely counterproductive and would lead to his own end, and that's because he'd never care about trying to understand how Chloe's mind works. Why would you do that when you never needed to care about other's possible reactions, because you've always known what these reactions will be? He just doesn't know how to treat people without using his power (Chloe says something like that on the final scene). He could have tried to, but then again nobody is perfect - and evil characters tend to be far less than perfect


The way I see it you got it 100/100 right Moskys.
How couldn't Emperor Palpatine predict Vader's redemption? Because he's an overconfident Sith.
I'm positive that Morland didn't start the abuse on Chloe by pimping her right away. He must have certainly tested her with small abuses at first, small inconsequential tasks, and when he saw that she was broken, too coward or weak to stand up against him, he began to feel confident that despite she being the only one he can't predict actions and outcome, she could be no threat to him. His arrogance and overconfidence is what caused his ruin. Had he been (or mimicked being) a good loving father and he'd won Chloe's loyalty and eliminated that loose-end. But since he's a jerk....
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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby Tao Dude » Sun, 18Jan21 00:31

Mortze wrote:
moskys wrote:Re Chloe's power

In my opinion Morland's power works like that: he imagines a plan and sees its outcome, but he also knows that if Chloe is involved this outcome he sees might not be the actual one. And that includes killing her because obviously she would be involved. He doesn't know if she would escape the murder attempt, or if this murder would lead to he being actually arrested even if he's seeing otherwise. And this happens with every single decision about her. So he just accepts that having Chloe around and 'controlled' is a small risk he's willing to take. Morland thinks that giving Chloe some minor asignments which could end in a fail is better than making some other 'big' decisions about her. Problem is he can't imagine she's brave enough to operate on her own against him - and of course he cannot foresee that. On the other hand, when something goes wrong he would instantly suspect she's done something about it (as we see when Xara escapes from the dungeon - keeping her alive down there was a 'perfect' plan plotted by Morland in which Chloe was not initially involved, so when he sees Xara is free he knows it's thanks to Chloe). So Chloe must be quite careful to not interfere in other plans but her asignments. This way Morland would think that these failures are just a consequence of her lack of capabilities or 'backbone' and not a sabotage.

The way he abuses her shows this frustration because he has an awesome power but Chloe's mere existence means he'd never be 100% sure of his actions. But it's also a way to 'guarantee' her loyalty through fear - the only way he knows. Of course, he doesn't even imagine that this behaviour it's absolutely counterproductive and would lead to his own end, and that's because he'd never care about trying to understand how Chloe's mind works. Why would you do that when you never needed to care about other's possible reactions, because you've always known what these reactions will be? He just doesn't know how to treat people without using his power (Chloe says something like that on the final scene). He could have tried to, but then again nobody is perfect - and evil characters tend to be far less than perfect


The way I see it you got it 100/100 right Moskys.
How couldn't Emperor Palpatine predict Vader's redemption? Because he's an overconfident Sith.
I'm positive that Morland didn't start the abuse on Chloe by pimping her right away. He must have certainly tested her with small abuses at first, small inconsequential tasks, and when he saw that she was broken, too coward or weak to stand up against him, he began to feel confident that despite she being the only one he can't predict actions and outcome, she could be no threat to him. His arrogance and overconfidence is what caused his ruin. Had he been (or mimicked being) a good loving father and he'd won Chloe's loyalty and eliminated that loose-end. But since he's a jerk....

Morland's biggest error was failing to understand Chloe's feelings for Miranda. Evil's biggest blind spot is love, and it's often a two-way street.
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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby BloodyMares » Sun, 18Jan21 01:28

A bit unrelated but not really. I touched on it a bit in my review but it was a small comment so it was most likely dismissed.
What canonically happened to Lucas' wife? In Finding Miranda she can either be dead or work for Morland. She wasn't mentioned in Saving Chloe at all so I assume it's either canonically she's dead or she wasn't mentioned specifically to leave the room for interpretation.
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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby tlaero » Sun, 18Jan21 02:14

First, I'm mostly with what other people, especially Moskys said about Morland and Chloe. I'll add one more thing:
She's his daughter. Abusing her is one thing. He can convince himself he's "making her stronger" or other such nonsense. But outright killing her would be another matter.


As for Karen (Lucas' ex-wife) I'm leaving both options open for you. The canon there is what you make of it. Morland had a huge number of employees. It's easy to imagine that she could be alive and we just didn't happen to see her.

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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby tlaero » Sun, 18Jan21 21:38

I just posted an article on our Patreon page that reveals our next two games and describes our plans for them. The article is free to the public, and you don't need to be a patron to see it. If you have comments or opinions, feel free to make them here. I find this place a better place for discussions anyway.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/whats-next-16529926

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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby L1nk1980 » Sun, 18Jan21 21:56

tlaero wrote:I just posted an article on our Patreon page that reveals our next two games and describes our plans for them. The article is free to the public, and you don't need to be a patron to see it. If you have comments or opinions, feel free to make them here. I find this place a better place for discussions anyway.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/whats-next-16529926

Tlaero


and it's great news, thank you for the new path you and Mortze are going in
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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby Rexxx » Sun, 18Jan21 22:11

I hope this change will help to gain more patrons and I'm curious of the new games (from what I have seen, usually who changes in monthly release has results in some months).
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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby BloodyMares » Sun, 18Jan21 23:09

I'm not sure I'm okay with the monthly releases...On one hand, it would be awesome for you as it will no doubt give you an influx of income from new patrons. And I would be happy to see more of Christine. On the other, I have rather negative experience with this than positive..

What can go wrong:

1) A shorter development time can cause quality decline: less time for bug-testing, rendering, meaning that you'll probably end up releasing patches when you need to focus your effort on the next chapter and so on. Or, the opposite, you'll keep moving forward with no desire to fix the bugs in the previous chapters. The game can also become stale. Just look what happened to Assassin's Creed franchise with its yearly releases. Many players could lack behind because they wouldn't have time to play your games so often. It's harder to keep track of what you've played if there's like, 17 samey chapters.

2) Stretching storytelling/filler chapters. Almost all games of this type have at least one episode where basically nothing interesting happens, either story-wise or sex-wise or even both. Fillers bring no enjoyment and you are forced to wait another month hoping to see something worthy next release. Fillers aside, it's very easy to become out of ideas (even for you) but "the show must go on", right? So there's a chance that the game can become a pale shadow of its earlier days either because it goes nowhere or because it derailed too much from its original idea or because it became overcrowded with secondary characters.

3) Linear vs Non-linear storytelling. If you decide to implement decision-making, you'll go crazy, I'm telling you now. You won't be able to acknowldedge every decision as its number would grow exponentially. Thus neverending bugs or plotholes. Too many games have fallen into this trap. One game's developer that I won't name even had to patch some of the previous choices out. The only way I see for this to work is to make the episodes linear.

4) $$$ vs regular fans. I'm not accusing you of anything but it's tempting to disregard non-patrons. I've seen it happen too many times.

Now, what I described to you was an example of developers with only one immediate project. You plan to have two. All I ask is to give this some more thought and if this decision is final, take baby steps, test the waters. I'm curious to see what happens with "Darkness Falls" but even if it fails, it won't be too sad because you can always go back to making full games about the main girls. Christine however is very dear to me and I'm just very cautious about this.

That said, I wish the best of luck to you and hope that everything that I described would not happen to your games as well because until now, they have been the only ones that I truly enjoyed.
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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby ShadyGroves » Mon, 18Jan22 02:15

Monthly??? Your story will suffer major hits.. [img]images/icones/icon12.gif[/img]

Game making on top of what ever is your private life coupled with your perks to patrons.

Your taking on a heck of alot of work load.

You'll end up like in college which most of us did. Writing a term paper 1-2 days before deadline.. lol



tlaero wrote:I just posted an article on our Patreon page that reveals our next two games and describes our plans for them. The article is free to the public, and you don't need to be a patron to see it. If you have comments or opinions, feel free to make them here. I find this place a better place for discussions anyway.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/whats-next-16529926

Tlaero
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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby ShadyGroves » Mon, 18Jan22 02:31

As for perks for Patrons and generate funds.

Mortze's art is so good it would look great on a coffee mug or such small item. And generate funds for you guys.

CafePress - Official Site

Celebrate everyone's unique identity and passions with custom t-shirts, stickers, posters, coffee mugs and more. Everyone is welcome.

http://www.cafepress.com/
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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby tlaero » Mon, 18Jan22 02:47

These are valid concerns. However, I take too much pride in what I do to skimp on quality. If we don't have time to deliver something good in a month, we'll delay to two months, etc. We're shooting for monthly releases, but we're not signing a contract or anything like that.

With CtGwC, at least, not much is going to change from how I usually write these games. If a game takes 6 months to make, I'm generally done with the first 1/6th of it after the first month. The only real difference here (modulo the alternating stories part) is that you won't have to wait for 5 more months to play that part that's already done. And, with CtGwC at least, there will come a point where the game is done and you can play it all at once. So, if you don't want to play small episodes, you can just wait until the end and play it then. That's similar to what would have happened if we hadn't gone episodic, although doing two games doubles the amount of time it'll take to finish one of them.

Linear vs non-linear IS a concern. It's going to be harder to have alternate paths when the game is coming out in small chunks. I'm thinking through that. The technical way I'm going to do it will easily allow me to add things to the earlier parts of the game, though. I'm wondering if I episode the canon path and add alternate paths afterward. We'll figure it out.

We have 570 patrons. Redemption for Jessika has been downloaded over 100,000 times. And when you add in the people who played it on playforceone, newgrounds, and vdategames it grows to over a million players. It would be foolish of us to disregard the masses for the 570.

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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby JFR » Mon, 18Jan22 03:18

tlaero wrote:... It's going to be harder to have alternate paths when the game is coming out in small chunks. ...

Tell me about it. [img]images/icones/icon18.gif[/img]

:lol:
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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby tlaero » Mon, 18Jan22 04:14

That said, the two top games on PlayForceOne are RfJ and GtKC, and both are extremely linear. So, even if episodes lead to more linearity, it's not necessarily the case that this is a bad thing.

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Re: Saving Chloe (en, es)

Postby BloodyMares » Mon, 18Jan22 09:02

@tlaero
Oh. So, what you're saying is that you won't change your approach to making these games but instead release them in parts like you did with Pandora? If that's the case, I'm okay with that.

My first concern was that these monthly episodes will be released on Network TV basis with like 23 or more episodes per season. With monthly releases of the episodes it would take almost 2 years to finish 1 story.

If you're going for a Telltale Games approach with 5 or so episodes per season that aren't artificially extended with filler and form a full game once the season is complete then I can see it being a good thing. But would Mortze have the time to finish all the necessary art in 1 month?
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