Pandora

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Re: Pandora

Postby Weltmeister » Tue, 17May16 16:14

Finally, thanks Mortze (and Tlaero)! It was worth every second of waiting.

The iRay-renders look excellent and you could also notice an improvement in those pictures that have not been renderes with iRay, compared to Part I. Sou just keep getting better and better.
I like Kean. I'm not a nerd or act shy around women, but he reminds of me, when I was his age. I find it consequent, that he has a thing for Maggie and she likes him, too. They both are two more average-type persons on a ship full of models from planet babe. I'm not a big fan of Maggie, either. To me, she just seems like a child sometimes, not an adult. And with those other hot and experienced girls around she just seems even more average and young. But Pandora is more than just sex-scenes between hot people. It is totally comprehensible and rather realistic with a focus on the plot.
And I like the adding of a little magic, like we could experience it in the cabin. Is it coincidence that Maggie looks like Pandora from the Roos' story? I'm pretty excited where this will lead to.

It is too bad that Kean and Rita will not come thogether. Allthough I said that I liked the realism and stuff, I thought that this would not be too unrealistisc. Rita is surrounded by people who do not like her because of her personality. Kean is the only one who is nice to her and supports her. Not because he wants to give her the D, but more because it is just how he is. I also know that nice guys do not get far if they are not hot, too. But I thought that Rita maybe would fall for the clumys, average looking nerd who is just the most supportive person in a world full of assholes.
I also would have loved to see Laura or Rikki more involved into nasty things, preferably with Kean. I don't know why Kean. As I said, I just like his character and I think he should be more the center of attraction of the girls around him (even if it is not that much realistic). Maybe he works out during the waiting time for Part III and the other girls notice him.


All in all: great game, looking forward to the next installment of the Pandora-universe and the next Elsaverse-game. Even though it is just days ago: is there anything to say about your next project, yet? :D
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Re: Pandora

Postby yahoo » Tue, 17May16 20:58

On Maggie:
I did not realize that Maggie was less than 18 years old. I assumed that her "I'm old enough to decide for myself" directed towards her dad meant that she was already an adult.
Still, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. She's of legal age (nyah, nyah, Americans), and she's written interestingly enough to be an engaging character.


On Cassandra:
It didn't occur to me that Kean may have worried about her when following her to the deck. Makes perfect sense now.


On other girls:
I read through the arguments again and I still don't see it happening with any girl other than Maggie. Especially with any girl with a strong character. Face it, Kean is more insecure than an Intel Core computer playing Flash video in Internet Explorer 6 on unpatched Windows XP. He wouldn't be able to approach any other girl on board, totally exacerbated by his premature ejaculation problem.


Mortze wrote:Nectar. You got that right. Damn.

Don't worry about it. As I said, the meaning of "nectar" is so discounted these days (basically any fruit drink with more than 50% juice content, but less than 100%) that most people would be thrown off by this and perplexed why she's drinking something so inferior.
And secondly, what's important isn't the Audi car. It's the license plate. I don't see UN staff riding Citroen DS.

Fair point, but it would still be a lovely shout out. And they're gods. They can ride whatever they damn please :D
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Re: Pandora

Postby xsandman78 » Tue, 17May16 21:14

Mortze wrote:Thanks all for your input!

I reckon Maggie isn't for all tastes. But I'm surprised on the criticism about Kean's nerdiness. I mean, it's not like he was supposed to loose his nerdiness, have a new haircut, build up strong confidence and solve his premature ejaculation from Part I into Part II. If you played Part I you knew what you could expect from Kean.
I understand that those who have played Pandora for the first time now don't like Kean for N reasons. But for those who have already played Part I...

I also understand the disappointment about Rita. But keeping the consistency of Kean's character what options could there have been in Part II for a possible (real) sexual encounter between Rita and him? There's Farik, Noah, Michael, Nate on board, all men that would be more of interest for Rita, sexually considering. I'm not saying someone like Kean can't find love, or sex, with a hot and beautiful girl. Sure he can. But he and Rita, personality wise, that wouldn't be consistent. Pandora was the story about Kean and Maggie. Future episodes will explore other perspectives. Hopefully for Rita there are far better options aboard for her to have fun with. :)


Felt to me possible right up to the kiss that something was developing with Rita.

Personally I find the whole notion of building up a connection with Rita whilst playing as kean and then handing her over to be fucked by one of the other characters jarring.
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Re: Pandora

Postby Crane » Tue, 17May16 21:57

OK, it`s true, Rita points are the first "friendly points" in the history of erotic games (at least as far as i know). So give Mortze the credit for that.
Anyway, Rita last scene chap. I was like "aww what a cute puppy". I too am very fond of Rita. I too think Maggie was a little more childish than my preferences but Rita friendly-zone was unexpected but logic. Unexpected because i thought "miracles can happen", but logic because that was not the case.

And anyone can have his/her opinion but it was very clear since ch. I if you screw around game is over. And there are two game overs. A very cool one (what the hell i`d go for that) and a terrible one. And he deserves the second one. He will be dead anyway few seconds after Captain Roos finds out that the guy who deflowered his daughter put his cock in some whore`s mouth.
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Re: Pandora

Postby tlaero » Wed, 17May17 01:38

caric wrote:i also didn't like FM, so i hardly doubt i'll be playing tlaero mortze games again. Just my 2 cents if anyone cares.


I definitely care and would very much like to hear feedback on FM. I'm about to start the next game, so now is a perfect time to give it. Please post a reply in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3960

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Re: Pandora

Postby tlaero » Wed, 17May17 01:47

Re: Rita. I don't fully remember the conversation, but I'm pretty sure I convinced Mortze not to have an actual Rita sex scene and make it a daydream instead. I don't think those two actually having sex is in character for either of them (whereas I think the dream sequence is completely in character for Kean). All that said, if people feel strongly about this and Mortze would like for me to change it, I'd be happy to change the few sentences after the scene happens to make it have really happened and Rita admonishes Kean to not tell anyone. Mortze, it's up to you.

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Re: Pandora

Postby JFR » Wed, 17May17 03:34

tlaero wrote:Re: Rita. I don't fully remember the conversation, but I'm pretty sure I convinced Mortze not to have an actual Rita sex scene and make it a daydream instead. I don't think those two actually having sex is in character for either of them (whereas I think the dream sequence is completely in character for Kean). All that said, if people feel strongly about this and Mortze would like for me to change it, I'd be happy to change the few sentences after the scene happens to make it have really happened and Rita admonishes Kean to not tell anyone. Mortze, it's up to you.
...

I know you are not asking for a vote, but my $0.02 says it is best the way it is. Kean would never actually "get" Rita but by playing properly he CAN gain an experienced friend, confidant and mentor. I liked Rita giving friendly, almost loving, advice during the fantail sunrise scene. That scene just wouldn't feel right if they had had unrealistically mind-blowing sex in the earlier scene. I mean really, Kean can't hang on long enough to satisfy excited and inexperienced Maggie until after several attempts. Is it reasonable to believe he could get Rita off so well the first time they accidentally slide from crying-on-the-shoulder to sex on a hard bench in the work room? Now that would feel unrealistic.
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Re: Pandora

Postby Weltmeister » Wed, 17May17 03:50

JFR wrote:
tlaero wrote:Re: Rita. I don't fully remember the conversation, but I'm pretty sure I convinced Mortze not to have an actual Rita sex scene and make it a daydream instead. I don't think those two actually having sex is in character for either of them (whereas I think the dream sequence is completely in character for Kean). All that said, if people feel strongly about this and Mortze would like for me to change it, I'd be happy to change the few sentences after the scene happens to make it have really happened and Rita admonishes Kean to not tell anyone. Mortze, it's up to you.
...

I know you are not asking for a vote, but my $0.02 says it is best the way it is. Kean would never actually "get" Rita but by playing properly he CAN gain an experienced friend, confidant and mentor. I liked Rita giving friendly, almost loving, advice during the fantail sunrise scene. That scene just wouldn't feel right if they had had unrealistically mind-blowing sex in the earlier scene. I mean really, Kean can't hang on long enough to satisfy excited and inexperienced Maggie until after several attempts. Is it reasonable to believe he could get Rita off so well the first time they accidentally slide from crying-on-the-shoulder to sex on a hard bench in the work room? Now that would feel unrealistic.


Plus you'll need to chance other parts of the storyline as well because Kean would not be virgin anymore. And I do not think that this was a plausible scene for a first time sexual encounter. I would leave everything as it was. It is Mortzes story to tell, not ours. But if he cares for opinions of player: maybe you could do some small hints for a sexual relationship between Kean and Rita in future games. There is no need for an explicit scene but maybe we could get the conclusion by how they treat each other or how they act around each other.

But if I could write the story by myself: Maggie is not a young girl but more like an ancient god in disguise so Keans and her relationship will have no future. Kean is depressed and Rita somehow notices that she does have feelings for this little lad. And Farik lets her go.
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Re: Pandora

Postby MaxCarna » Wed, 17May17 04:12

Mortze wrote:Thank you for your honesty. I respect and understand your opinion. I'd like to know why you didn't liked FM either though. Maybe you could speak your mind on the FM thread?
I respond to your comment because I also must be honest. I share a different opinion about teenagers depicted in this medium (I'v already developed this subject somewhere else on this forum) and initially Maggie's age (18) wasn't supposed to be disclosed, so that people could think she'd be under 18, which she was supposed to be at first. But I got counsel that it should be wise to put the line there saying she's 18. I didn't like doing it. I also think it is dumb to design teenage (or child) characters and just say they are adults. That's an hipocritic legal protection. I think it hurts more than it does good.
I had to come true on that subject after seeing your comment.


I considered this a very intriguing question.

Always thought that Tlaero games, consequently the Mortze games, much more ethical, where women have consistency and value. She share her games for free for so long, took so long to go to Pat.reon, while hundreds of others developers are already born in there. The reward range, below 3k with many complete games is much smaller than some developers with a single incomplete game that abuses of the incest theme. It seems very ironic to see them accused of using underage models just to make money. The opinion is valid, although, but seems to target others more than those two.

This discussion is very broad, in our project we changed one character based on the model teen Josie, that cost some dollars, because even applying and older shape, it was looking too young. I bought Blaire to replace, and some people can still says that she looks like under 18. Oh, and I really prefer mature women, but the specific role needed a young.

There are many variables related to culture, common biotype from the region, faster or slowly developments. I personally think that the range between 15 and 20 years can vary according to the printing. I can say that a girl has 15 and in fact she have 20, or I can say 20 and she have 15. Boys with 18 years always need to be extra careful to don't be mistaken. Tv series shows cases like that all the time. So, if any creator tell me that his character has 18 and it looks like in this range, I tend to believe. The fact is that true pedofiles go much lower than this range.

I never saw Tlaero or Mortze making campaign to take profit, Tlaero share a tool to help any developer to make his own game. What is the greed in that? When I played Pandora for the first time, I stayed with the doctor and the pilot in the head. So I guess the younger girl is not even the most appealing character. I didn't play the second part yet, but the first part still makes part of the game, so I keep this option.

Resuming is a valid point, but for me Tlaero and Mortze are far from using underage to make profit.
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Re: Pandora

Postby anggus » Wed, 17May17 05:24

tlaero wrote:
ltpika wrote:However, if I can be critical for a moment, I will be disappointed if this is the end of Kean's story. I pursued Rita in my original playthrough, the promise of the initial release was that she'd have a route. I worked pretty hard to get all the Rita points possible and all I get is a dream sequence?


I really don't think there was anything in CH1 that promised a sexual relationship with Rita. I guess you can say, "All I got was a dream sequence," but I thought that Mortze killed it in that sequence. It was extremely hot and exciting. Okay, it didn't really happen, but then again, nothing in the game really happened. They're just pictures and words.

Someone I'm close to gets frustrated with tv shows and movies where they imply and ending but don't actually SHOW it. For example, The Truman Show. In the end you see the girl he loves running up the stairs so you KNOW they're going to get together. But the show didn't actually SHOW them get together so we don't really KNOW that they did. This frustrates my friend. When that happens, I say, "So, pretend that they did. It's fiction, you can pretend anything you want about it."

The same is true here. If you want to, in your head, take out the text where Rita wakes you up from your daydream and put in text that says, "Okay, that just happened, but you're never going to tell anyone about it. Got it?" In your version, it was a real fling that they're going to keep to themselves. That's cool. Really all that would change is about 3 sentences.

Tlaero


I commented on this in "another place" as Rita is probably my favorite character in the Tora-verse, at present, followed by a close second-place tie in Miranda/Elsa, but I feel that this forum is a better...forum for discussion than said place.

I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment towards the relationship between Kean and Rita. It wasn't realistically going to happen, though Kean could of course endear himself towards her as a supportive loving younger friend figure. I think you both absolutely nailed the daydream. It was AMAZINGLY hot (Mortze, that, especially with Rita on her knees, was possibly the greatest erotic art I've seen in my life), and it was meaningfully unrealistic. By that, I mean, it progressed way faster than real sexual encounters do in real life and in non-dream sequences, as it was a fleeting fantasy of Kean more than anything else.

I can understand why someone would want to pursue Rita as a love interest, as in many other traditional visual novels, the player is given "routes" where they can conceivably "get with" any sexual interest they want, but that predicates the playable character being more a blank slate, rather than having a canonical history. [Edit with some additional comments]: That being said... like Tlaero said... there's ACTUALLY a sex scene in this game for those of us who are super duper into Rita... who cares that it was a daydream??? You could just as easily remember it as it being a "one-time-never-again" theme in your mind for the already fictional universe.

I actually haven't finished the game yet, but bravo, you two! I look forward to seeing the expansions of both the Elsa-verse and the Pandora-verses... and more Rita and Miranda, especially plox! [img]images/icones/icon13.gif[/img] :crazy:
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Re: Pandora

Postby tlaero » Wed, 17May17 06:00

MaxCarna wrote:Always thought that Tlaero games, consequently the Mortze games, much more ethical, where women have consistency and value. She share her games for free for so long, took so long to go to Pat.reon, while hundreds of others developers are already born in there. The reward range, below 3k with many complete games is much smaller than some developers with a single incomplete game that abuses of the incest theme. It seems very ironic to see them accused of using underage models just to make money.


Thank you, Max.

I was the one who originally convinced Mortze to put text into the first scene of CH1 that explicitly showed Maggie to be "of age." Aside from giving advice, I wasn't working on the game at the time, but I would have been very uncomfortable working on a game that showed explicit sex with an underage character. There's a reason all of my games are about adults, and there's a reason why the Bonus scene in FM stopped when it did.

That said, I'm an American, and in my culture, "adult" is 18. That colors my opinions. It's different in other cultures. And, even in the USA, the age of consent is younger than 18. (It's 16 in my state.) And, it's also different at sea, where the story takes place. Furthermore, there are 20 year olds who look like Maggie, and there are 13 year olds who look like Miranda. There's a ton of variety in human beings.

People are welcome to not like the game because they think Maggie looks too young. But it's unreasonable to say that she couldn't be 18, the way the story says she is.

As for "doing it for the money." <sighs> If we were making editorial changes in our games to bring in more money, all of them would be about tentacle sex with underage Japanese furries.

I spend a lot of time thinking about how I can keep my current patrons engaged. I spend zero time thinking about how I should change my games to go after the hentai crowd. We tell the stories we want to tell. Patron revenue has nothing to do with it. Seriously.

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Re: Pandora

Postby anggus » Wed, 17May17 06:20

tlaero wrote:
MaxCarna wrote:Always thought that Tlaero games, consequently the Mortze games, much more ethical, where women have consistency and value. She share her games for free for so long, took so long to go to Pat.reon, while hundreds of others developers are already born in there. The reward range, below 3k with many complete games is much smaller than some developers with a single incomplete game that abuses of the incest theme. It seems very ironic to see them accused of using underage models just to make money.


Thank you, Max.

I was the one who originally convinced Mortze to put text into the first scene of CH1 that explicitly showed Maggie to be "of age." Aside from giving advice, I wasn't working on the game at the time, but I would have been very uncomfortable working on a game that showed explicit sex with an underage character. There's a reason all of my games are about adults, and there's a reason why the Bonus scene in FM stopped when it did.

That said, I'm an American, and in my culture, "adult" is 18. That colors my opinions. It's different in other cultures. And, even in the USA, the age of consent is younger than 18. (It's 16 in my state.) And, it's also different at sea, where the story takes place. Furthermore, there are 20 year olds who look like Maggie, and there are 13 year olds who look like Miranda. There's a ton of variety in human beings.

People are welcome to not like the game because they think Maggie looks too young. But it's unreasonable to say that she couldn't be 18, the way the story says she is.

As for "doing it for the money." <sighs> If we were making editorial changes in our games to bring in more money, all of them would be about tentacle sex with underage Japanese furries.

I spend a lot of time thinking about how I can keep my current patrons engaged. I spend zero time thinking about how I should change my games to go after the hentai crowd. We tell the stories we want to tell. Patron revenue has nothing to do with it. Seriously.

Tlaero


Wait, wait, wait... you mean your next game won't be about some 13 year old that "corrupts" his mom/aunt/sister/every female in town with breasts larger than basketballs into having sex with him, while they're simultaneously all cheating on him with tentacle furries? Let me know if I missed anything there. [img]smile/kneu_monster.gif[/img]
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Re: Pandora

Postby Crane » Wed, 17May17 07:05

tlaero wrote:I was the one who originally convinced Mortze to put text into the first scene of CH1 that explicitly showed Maggie to be "of age." Aside from giving advice, I wasn't working on the game at the time, but I would have been very uncomfortable working on a game that showed explicit sex with an underage character. There's a reason all of my games are about adults, and there's a reason why the Bonus scene in FM stopped when it did.


It was very obvious who convinced Mortze about Maggie's adulthood. And let me guess: Mortze was all for a great hot Bonus scene in FM?
Damn woman, listen to the man sometime. :D

Kidding. I'm with you on that.
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Re: Pandora

Postby RobNorthman » Wed, 17May17 13:07

tlaero wrote:
That said, I'm an American, and in my culture, "adult" is 18. That colors my opinions. It's different in other cultures. And, even in the USA, the age of consent is younger than 18. (It's 16 in my state.) And, it's also different at sea, where the story takes place. Furthermore, there are 20 year olds who look like Maggie, and there are 13 year olds who look like Miranda. There's a ton of variety in human beings.

Tlaero


In my country the age of consent is 15, but taking erotically themed pictures and posting them online is illegal for anyone below age 18. That goes for real life models of course, but some nations have been prosecuting depictions of artificially created underage models as well. Admittedly I'm a bit rusty on the subject, but I believe a game like Pandora would be subject to the laws of the nation the server host is situated in. At the end of the day it's better to be safe than sorry, don't want neither Tlaero or Mortze facing jail time or fines over something like this.
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Re: Pandora

Postby Dolphin-BR » Wed, 17May17 14:34

One thing I forgot to mention:

The expression on the characters faces were perfect. In the scene where Kean meets Laura and Maggie after talking to the captain we could understand the situation by just looking at their faces, no text needed.

When reading the comments it is fun to see how people's tastes are different, some people are infatuated with Rita. For my taste Rita and Talia have no appeal at all. For me macho girls are just ridiculous, they don't have anything I appreciate in a woman: Femininity, cuteness, sweetness, charm...
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