Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

[jardel77]

Hi Tlaero,

Thanks for your reply!

Is any of your ideas for the next game a character that we have seen before or it'll be a newcomer? I'm just asking this because, as I said, I'm really looking forward to see how this is going to be and this would give me even more motivation to replay all the games

Also, since you have the story mostly figured out are you thinking of creating a game 2 for any of these characters or will just be new ones? This is something that I'm actually thinking about because with Elsa she first discovered her ability and now she's getting really good at it, for Jessica she wasn't comfortable with her own ability and now she is and for Miranda she's a huge question mark in terms of abilities but she seems very powerful and more aware of everything in the story than everyone else and just like Christine in your previous series she's the character that I like the most overall. And it would be fun to play again with all of them.

One of the things that in all the games of the series is really cool is the fact that we can see some parts of each others stories from different perspectives. Considering this and if you are considering to create a 2nd game for any of the characters, would you consider to create one from Elsa, Jessica or Miranda's perspective? For me this would make sense in the way that it would give more information about each one of them and also about their boyfriends that somehow don't seem randomly picked. Because Jason shares the ability with Elsa, Mark is imune to Jessica and Lucas... well being Miranda such a mystery I bet he has something that caught her attention other than the looks, although we couldn't figure that out in this game.

I know that these are a lot of questions and please feel free to don't reply to some of them because you know what's best and I'm just interested and curious.

As for some other questions raised here I do think that the options "more confident" and "timid" are really good because they give you another perspective of the game and increase the number of replays we make with some new outcomes and good options as well. I just think that this should have different consequences somehow. Like for example being more confident and having one stands should at least make us try to go further with Miranda on the first date and deal with those consequences later in the game. I know that this is probably a lot of work but it would feel even more real.

And as for the image being just used to click when there's actually one or more actions in the Picture I agree with it and to continue just a button bellow would be fine. ""s or ()s would be a good way to represent the inner voice or thoughts. This is just because sometimes we have to click the Picture just to continue and at least I waste a lof of time searching for other options in the Picture so I can see all the options

You guys are an amazing team (the best) and please keep it up =)

[tlaero]

Most people are quite one-sided. Morland is the ultimate evil, the protagonists are perfect.

You haven't heard Morland's side of the story yet.

Tlaero

[tlaero]

I'm really sorry to hear that there's been a leak.
I didn't support you with my money, but I highly cherish your work, so, even if it is only a symbolic gesture, I won't play this game until its supposed date of release, since I wouldn't have, without those people. I'll take it as a christmas gift

Carloimbonati, I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but there's no reason to wait. Feel free to play it now.

Tlaero

[tlaero]

Slightly off-topic, but you mention Adventure Creator. Hoping to start creating some games of my own, I downloaded a copy of it using a link from a BEW discussion thread, but my Norton won't let me install it because it says the file is infected with a trojan or somesuch. Does the way your software works make it look like a trojan or has somebody got to the file and added some code?

Is it related to Adventure Creator that runs on the Unity engine? I am guessing not, as that needs paying for, or is there a payment model associated with your software as well? Happy to make a contribution if that is expected.

Tao Dude, if you're thinking about using Adventure Creator, you definitely want to go here on the lagoon. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=3678
BEW uses a modified version that is really out of date. I've never heard of anyone having trouble with Norton. If you use the version from that thread and Norton still complains, let's discuss it there.

No, my AC2 is unrelated to Unity and is completely free. The only "cost" for using AC2 is that you're required to let me play the games you make with it for free. (You can sell your games royalty free, but you have to give me a copy.)

Tlaero

[moskys]

Regarding "Timid" and "Aggressive."

I'm not 100% happy with those words. Originally I called it "Introverted" and "Extroverted." But those were wrong too. It's hard to sum up the situation in a single word, and I hoped the narrative would make it clear where the words couldn't. But some of the feedback suggests that the narrative didn't make it clear enough.

I'll spoiler this, though it's not really much of a spoiler at this point.

No matter what character traits you choose in Lucas, he's neither "timid" nor "aggressive" about sex. He was married. He's had sex before--really good sex even. The "timid" or "aggressive" refers to the way he's distancing himself emotionally from other women so that he doesn't get hurt again. He's not timid about sex. He's timid about falling for someone, so he isn't dating anyone. Not having sex is just a byproduct of not dating. By the end of the first date with Miranda, though, he's decided to take a chance and open himself up to being hurt again. At that point, of course he had sex with her at the first opportunity.

Tlaero

Regarding the timid/agressive thing, I think 'Casanova' or 'Don Juan' would have been better options instead of agressive. Considering you want to choose an adjective for a guy who dates lots of girls (almost everyone he's interested in but just for the joy of conquest and sex), you should've gone for something like that (I don't know the English slang for that attitude towards girls, but I know a couple of words in Spanish which would express that, different from the above mentioned, so you'll probably have that in English too).
For timid, I don't think it was a bad choice. Nevertheless, celibate might seem too harsh, but if you remove the religious conditionants of the word I think it's quite accurate too (again, I'm not a native English speaker so there's probably another words which could suit better).

[tlaero]

Jardel, actual sequels (ala "Dreaming with Elsa 2") are pretty hard in this genre. A lot of the point with these games is getting to have sex with the character. Having already done that in the first game, the point of the second game needs to be something different. The one actual sequel I've done is Life With Keeley, and it was the least well received of my games. What people didn't like was that they played a woman, but that was a result of me trying to come up with a story that would realistically follow from the previous game.

Things aren't quite as constrained in the Elsaverse, since these games have been about more than getting to have sex with the character. But I'd still have to find something meaningful to tell about their lives after I've resolved the major arc. In most media (books, movies, games) sequels tend to fall flat because the first story told about the most interesting thing that happened in the character's life. That means the sequel is often either less interesting or a rehash.

RfJ and FM are kind of sequels to DwE, but not really, because they're actually continuations of a single story. Once I've finished that story, there's much less opportunity for sequels.

Also, time spent on a sequel is time I didn't spend on a new game. When I finished DwE, everyone wanted DwE 2. If I had done that, however, we never would have gotten RfJ. I'm pretty sure RfJ is better than whatever I would have done in DwE 2.

Finally, the patron perks allow me to tell short stories with these characters, which are KIND of like sequels without the year-long production. Between DwE: Learning to Fly, DwE: Royal Guard, and DwE: Dreaming with the Dead, we've learned a lot about Elsa. I've got other short stories in mind, including one called "DwE: Multiplicity" and one I recently came up with called "FM: Alpha."

But, we'll see. Judging by how long these games take to create, there's a lot of time between now and when it will be time to think seriously about sequels. If I come up with something great, I'll do a sequel. If I don't, I won't.

Tlaero

[tlaero]

Considering you want to choose an adjective for a guy who dates lots of girls (almost everyone he's interested in but just for the joy of conquest and sex), you should've gone for something like that (I don't know the English slang for that attitude towards girls, but I know a couple of words in Spanish which would express that, different from the above mentioned, so you'll probably have that in English too).

Heh. "Playa"

Tlaero

[JFR]

... my favorite scene in any of my games is in RfJ when Jess sings at the end. Her singing for Marc while Sarah watches was a close second. Prior to this game, my favorite Mortze picture was the look on Sarah's face in that scene. However, he's outdone himself now. My new favorite Mortze image of all time is in FM:

The close up with Chloe and Miranda when Miranda is thinking about killing her. The look on Miranda's face is OMG perfect.

...

I would agree except I'd change your order and keep Jess singing with Sarah in the background as number 1. I also think the close-up portrait of Xara with her stunning blue eyes intact in DwE:RG is right up there.

[xCooLer2]

...
I also think the close-up portrait of Xara with her stunning blue eyes intact in DwE:RG is right up there.

this!

[jardel77]

Tlaero,

I understand what you're saying and yes I agree on the time issue as well.

The thing is just that this is much more than just a game trying to have sex although that's really what most of us want as well. But considering this story and the Elsaverse would make actual sense in all of this.

And maybe is just my marketer side speaking but I believe that, for me, what makes your games so unique is that they are different from the rest and there's more than just trying to get in the girls pants. Personally I really enjoyed LwK and it wasn't just my favourite game of that series because of Christine. But that's just me at least.

But considering this personally I think the whole series would benefit a lot from the woman's perspectives towards their own abilities, their lives overall and their sex lives. Also, the part of conquest, seduction and passion is really amazing but games that would show how to mantain and even refresh a relationship like this or even decide that it's better to end it because of their own or other person would be very innovative and fun to play. And that's also something that happens every day and would make the games even more realistic. So, it would offer something tottally new but still very interesting and, in my opinion, still very importante to the story.

And then that's it there's Morland's side of the story as you mentioned and this trying to "corrupt" one of the boyfriends or even the girls would make something really interesting and different.

I get it that this way is more commonly accepted and I love it trust me but this would also be very important even if not from the girls perspectives, although that would be quite amazing as well.

But of course, these are just my opinions because after the character's realization of the Elsaverse and their own abilities would be a shame not to explore more of that or even a more mature approach to their decisions and use of their abilities. And with the Morland situation and being able to "chose" if you mantain and refresh your relationship or join into the "darkside" and start a new one, believe the other side is right or just make the partner jealous would be great starters for a really amazing story with your writing

But I'll keep on replaying all the games until the next one ahaha =) trully they are masterpieces of this genre and you guys are amazing. Keep up =)

Jardel

[Kydenn]

I just finished playing through Finding Miranda last night and can say that I enjoyed it thoroughly! It continues the high standard that we have come to expect from a game and story by Tlaero and Mortze and I think Mortze has outdone himself and raised the bar when it comes to visuals.

I have been a huge fan of Tlaero’s work ever since I discovered Getting to Know Christine a few years back. I found it extremely sexy and well written and made me want to seek out and play her other work and I was never disappointed. Her games have always stood out to me from the rest of the pack and I feel they have only gotten better with each new collaboration. Though I have seen some complaints about her male protagonists I must say that for myself I have found them to be relatable and the story always engrossing. I always look forward to Tlaero’s next work.

Needless to say when I saw that Finding Miranda was released I was quite excited and couldn’t wait to play it! I don’t have any criticisms but since both Tlaero and Mortze encourage feedback I thought I would give them some.

-I really liked the character of Miranda. I found her extremely likable, sexy and engaging. I felt that it made perfect sense that she would sleep with Lucas right away and that she was simply a sexual person who knows what she wants. It was also easy to empathize with her and it was clear that she was dealing with some demons of her own.

- I liked Lucas the protagonist. He was good looking and I enjoyed that he was damaged as well and had some personal growth throughout the story.

- I liked seeing Miranda without makeup in some scenes. It added some realism.

- I really enjoyed this game but I still liked Redemption for Jessika more. I think the reason was in RfJ it felt like a complete story whereas in FM I didn’t feel it really had a resolution. I kept expecting that the game would end when Miranda finally being able to sleep again so I was a little surprised when that didn’t happen. Of course, I understand that this game seemed to be setting up a lot for the future games so I sort of equate this with something like Empire Strikes Back. By itself the story didn’t have much resolution but it was a part of a much large narrative.

- I found the concept of being able to determine what happened to Lucas in the past interesting but it also just made me wonder what was considered canon. Of course, keep in mind I am a HUGE KotoR fan and every time I replay it I always play it the same way to stay with the canon storyline. I’m just neurotic that way I guess.

- I tend to prefer a longer, linear game over a shorter many paths game but I like that you put important story information that was different in each path so that you learned something new every time.

- Would be interested in learning more about the Tanaka sisters in future games.

I also must say that whenever I play one of Tlaero’s games it gives me a huge urge to write. Not games or anything erotic but just stories in general. I wish I knew her process of planning, mapping out the plot and major elements, and then filling in all the fine detail.

Anyway I want to say thank you to both Tlaero and Mortze for not only your hard work but also sharing your passion with us!

[Tao Dude]

Excellent game, and well up to the usual standard. I like the way it weaves in with other games in the series, and looking forward to other aspects of the story being revealed in later games.

Best,
Tao

[iksanabot]

Hi Tlaero, Hi Mortze.

Man! Congratulations on another great game!

Mortze, you are so talented it's painful. You were immediately making great images when you first appeared on this scene, and have gotten better and better with every game. I could declare a dozen images in this game as my favorite images in any erotic game ever made. I mean, my God! The images of Miranda

in her basketball outfit!!!?

They killed me. I am desperate to see more images of her in that outfit. Preferably doing naughty things, and perhaps in various stages of undress/modesty, like with a nipple slip or even better, a willful crotch shot. Anyway, I'm at your mercy - I'm completely infatuated with those images. Bravo!

I will give one piece of constructive feedback, but really, I feel like high school wrestler trying to give pointers to a mixed martial arts champion. The animations were incredible, but one thing I found took away from them was the show work. I think the light-source functionality in iray (or whatever, I'm way out of my element here) helps to make images look very realistic and give mood and texture to the scene, but the shadows look less real when they are animated. I'm not 100% sure, but the animation when i first noticed it, I think, was maybe

the second sex scene with Miranda - I had sex with her at the lake first and the shadows from the sun are less complicated than shadows from multiple sources inside, I assume, which was how the second sex scene played out. So it was the second sex scene animation where I noticed that the way the shadows played across their bodies looked a little... disjointed

. But at the same time, that animation was incredible. You really manage to get all the right movement going on, without any unnecessary movement that looks so strange when it repeats in a loop (something I have discussed with Leo in the hope of influencing the LOP artists away from including those kinds of movements in our games). I'm taking about how great the breasts look, bouncing and jiggling during the sex, without any strange head-turning of facial expressions repeatedly going from relaxed to a grunting sneer at the apex of each loop. Again, just spectacular. Thanks for giving us this incredible work.

And Tlaero, my dear, dear lady. I started my post to you with an aggressively flirtatious attempt to woo you into an affair, but it fell flat. I'm feeling too humbled right now. You've humbled me yet again, but not as a competitor who is striving to write games as good as yours, which is how some people could interpret my meaning - in fact I don't consider us competitors, as I know you don't either. I'm humbled because in spite of my opinion that erotic games should focus on the erotic, that any story in an erotic game should focus on amplifying the eroticism of the sex scenes, in spite of this strong opinion and an accompanying resistance to letting myself get engaged in a story that I see as almost irrelevant to the sex, I fucking love your games. You had me by the end of the scene where Lucas goes to talk to Miranda in her office, and it never let me go. I love Miranda, I want her so badly. She's real to me, and paying through various "tame" - by my standards - sex scenes with her was incredibly hot, and satisfying. It makes me want to fall in love again. I may have to start an affair. (I'm so kidding). I don't really have any constructive criticism of the writing. I thought the choices were fairly straightforward and in contrast to others, I felt that for most of the choices that were similar, I understood why one was more aggressive than the other. I know you like discussion, so in the interest of trying to provide at least something for you to think about, I paused and thought long and hard before ending this paragraph. I started with something but gave up. Anything I could suggest you do in your games is stuff you either have already done when the game/situation seemed appropriate to you, or I already know you don't want to do. And I love the way you do it, so great.


I read though a few posts before posting myself, so I know someone else mentioned this; I love all the outfits, and I would like to see more scenes/images in the games of characters in various stages of undress. Sex starting from naked is great and all, but sex starting from clothed, where you don't get everything off because the passion is too strong to wait, or where they don't get everything off because the characters just like the way each other looks in that exact state of undress - that is so hot and contributes to the variety.

Anyway, I'm done for a bit, but I will play a few more times, so I may be back again soon. Love it, love you guys.

PS I think you nailed it, the way you had the game being form four possible starting points. I know you started this long before LWT2 ws out, so I find it a very pleasing kind of zeitgeist-esc alignment between our work.

PSS also, which one of you plays go? I love go. I suck (currently 14 kyu on DGS) but I have only recently started trying to get better.

[Mortze]

Thank you all for your kinds words. We really appreciate! And thank you for taking time to give your opinion about the game and what can be improved in our future projects. If it's correct that we try to keep true to our personal creative and there re things we won't change, it is important to keep giving us your insight because there are things we will change. There has been different approaches taken to FM because we heard from you.

the second sex scene with Miranda - I had sex with her at the lake first and the shadows from the sun are less complicated than shadows from multiple sources inside, I assume, which was how the second sex scene played out. So it was the second sex scene animation where I noticed that the way the shadows played across their bodies looked a little... disjointed

IRay never messes up shadows. The creator does. IRay emulates physics realism when it comes to light so if something looks odd it's because the lights aren't well set by the 3d artist (or some error happened in the software). In this case, the shadows might seem strange and that's on me, because the scene had lights from almost all the directions in a circle. Shadows will only stand out when there is a strong light source. On a sunny day, by noon, you will see that you have a strong shadow on the ground. That's because the sun is a much more powerfull light than the sky, ground, buildings, that reflect light. But if the clouds cover the sky then you loose a powerful light source and only get scattered light, from the clouds, ground, buildings. And you won't see almost no shadows. That may be what happened in that scene. Put a circle of candles around you and you won't get pretty shadows. Use a 3 point light and you will have beautiful shadows.

- I liked seeing Miranda without makeup in some scenes. It added some realism.

There was a double intent in having Miranda change her hair and cloths so much. I didn't use different make up sets, just ON and OFF.
The first was to portray her inconsistency or undefined identity. She is lost and so can't adhere to a consistent style.
The second was to add realism indeed. Look around you, you don't see the same people with the same clothes and even hair (women mostly) every single day.

Caravaggio, I've never had Tortellini Napolitana. Mortze told me what to call it. So, in this case at least, it's more likely to be a Portuguese take on your cuisine than an American one... (-:

No way! Just goggle Tortellini Napoletana and you'll see THE INTERNET is killing your pasta Caravaggio!

I'm always looking for new inspiration/things to blatantly steal for the tabletop RPG games I run.

Hey, that's really cool!

Facial expressions - As I pointed out earlier, while the graphics to this game are probably the best 3D renders for an adult interactive game I've seen, there are still areas to improve in, and that's to do with facial expressions. As an example, and this has been prominent throughout many parts of the story, when a character is written as having some sort of emotion during a scene, for example - sadness, a picture would show a character with an over-exaggerated face of that particular emotion.
The problem with that is we rarely feel one particular emotion at the time, even if it's dominates the other ones in our mind, and they're often mixed in with the others. Depending on the situation, one might feel anger and sadness, or sadness and surprise, or sadness and contempt. Not only that, but there's also levels of each emotion, ranging from being slightly sad (I forgot to wash dishes earlier morning, now I'll miss the first 15 minutes of my favorite show cleaning them), to downright breakdown.
In Mortze's renders, instead of showing that they're complex humans with complex emotions, they seem to be fully committed to just 1 expression that is dictated by the narrative: 100% sadness, or 100% happiness, or 100% disgust, or 100% contempt. A good facial expression would be a mix of two emotions, or even three, where, for example, eyebrows would show a slight sadness (forming that "pyramid"-like shape), while the mouth would curve in a wide smile, indicating that they're really happy about something and are holding in their tears because of it.

I'm not sure how to get better here. Not implying there isn't room for improvement, no, but I don't know what do to to correct that. When explained by Tlaero what emotion to portray in the character I use the old book technique of doing the expresison myself and look at a mirror. I don't do that everytime because some expressions are known after a while but that's my modus operandi. And when the expression is "she looks at you with sadness" I make a sad face and look at the mirror. Could use some insight on how to improve that though.

[stoper]

Played it today and it was good. Well written, with interesting characters and what looked like a very complex and well thought story.
Being the perv I am tho', the game did little for me. The sex scenes were casual and predictable, the relationship between the PC and the girl was very linear.
I understand that's your style and I respect that. I just wished I was more in control of what's happening.

The visuals were not that good on a technical level, probably due to the old Gen 4 figures the artist seems to be using. Iray is a quality engine, but this can only get you so far. Textures/shaders and lighting are often even more important.
That being said - the images look good artistically and Miranda is very cute on most of the renders.

Keep it up and have fun.