Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby caravaggio » Fri, 17May19 14:08

Now I feel bad.. to me Lucas was the greatest male character you ever created, I loved that you as a player could shape his behaviour, I loved that you characterized him with his hobbies and made him a more believable and likeable love interest for Miranda. I wasn't really concerned about choices or lack of them in sex scenes and definitely I didn't care about dating choices (I mean, I totally understand that creating different branches just to give different dating options takes a lot of time you could use for something else) but those where definitely a plus. All in all I think that Finding Miranda is the best game you've ever made, and the only flaw I can think about it is the achievement system (I mean, once I finished the game making Lucas acts how I liked I didn't really want to finish the game other 3 times making him behave in a way I didn't like, but that's just matter of personal tastes).

What I wrote mentioning ExLibris was referring to your generic male character (but to be precise I'm only referring to Marc and the GtKC character) which were kind of dull, they lacked any agency and it was difficult to understand why Christine or Jessica would fall for them. That said RfJ and GtKC are stil probably my 2 favourite dating sim games of all times.. I was just giving my two cents about the criticism about the "weakness" of your MC.

I'm sorry if you feel that "we players" don't appreciate the effort you put into the improvements of your games and answering the feedbacks from the previous games.. I really think that in FM you can see all the evolution and to me is almost the perfect game.


Marco6661 wrote:@Tlaero:

Une remarque à "2 balles" peut-être mais une remarque quand même...

Pourquoi ne pas tout simplement, chère Tlaero, continuer à écrire les histoires que vous aimez et créer les jeux tels que vous le désirez?
Il est impossible de satisfaire tout le monde, et d'ailleurs, il ne faut pas.

Ce qui rend vos créations exceptionnelles, c'est cette alchimie complexe qui mêle qualité d'écriture, intérêt du scénario, rigueur du montage, mais surtout ... cette part de vous-même que vous apportez à vos réalisations, ce petit supplément d'âme qu'il est si difficile de trouver dans la plupart des œuvres littéraires, que l'on parle de romans, scénarii, ou quelque écrit que ce soit.

Il est très généreux de votre part de vous inquiéter du ressenti de chacun, merci, mais mon opinion est qu'il est mille fois plus important que vous gardiez le plaisir d'écrire et de créer ce qui vous plait à VOUS, et merde! à ceux qui ne savent qu'asséner des critiques contre productive.

On ne peut pas plaire à tout le monde, et c'est tant mieux!

Sorry, I have not the knowledge for translate exactly in English what I wrote this morning, I hope than one charitable people do that for you, Lady Tlaero.

Marco.


A 2 cents comment maybe but a comment anyway,

Why not simply, my dear Tlaero, continuing to write the stories you like and create the games how you want?
It's impossible to satisfy everyone, and for this reason there's no need to.

What makes your creations exceptionals is the complex alchemy that mixes good writing, interesting scenarios, rigorous mounting, but above all..
the piece of yourself that you put into your creations, that little piece of soul that 's so hard to find in the majority of literary works, meaning novels, scenarios or whatever is written.

It's very generous of you to worry about everyone's feeling [not really sure I got the correct meaning], thanks, but is my opinion that is way more important that you protect your passion for writing and creating what YOU like, fuck the rest! To those who only know counterproductive criticism.

You cannot make everybody likes you, and that's good!

I'm not really sure my english is more understandable than an unkown foreign language but I tried anyway
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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby FedoraMan » Fri, 17May19 14:48

RobNorthman wrote:If all you want is a Alpha male wish fulfillment fantasy, Tlaero and Mortze games are not for you.


I'm gonna use this as my jumping-on point. It's a message that everyone should listen to, but I know most won't, so I'm hoping Tlaero and Mortze at least will.

The point a lot of people are missing - and that includes the vast majority of those who complain about T&M games as well as T&M themselves to a certain extent - is that it is perfectly possible, and in fact inevitable, for an individual to dislike a game which is nonetheless technically sound. It is literally impossible to write a game that caters to every fetish and kink. Even ignoring the more extreme, polarizing categories (rape, incest, furries), any game in which the male takes the dominant role will alienate those players who want the female to take the dominant role. Any game which features multiple sexual partners will alienate those players who want strict monogamy. Hell, any game which features only heterosexual interactions will alienate those players who want homosexual interactions.

Game mechanics follow a similar pattern. For every player who wants extensive, branching story paths there are other players who just want a quick click-through to see the dirty pictures. For every player who wants deep puzzles and challenge, there are players who don't want to have to put effort into a recreation activity. For every player who most highly values replayability, there are players who want to be able to see everything in a single playthrough. Just like with the fetishes, it is impossible to create a game which ticks every single box.

The point folks are missing is that it's OK for a game to not tick every box. That doesn't make it a bad game, and it doesn't mean the game creators are bad game creators.

Players: You are not the damn center of the universe. Not every game is written for you, not every game will appeal to your particular mix of wants. More to the point, it is utterly unreasonable to EXPECT a game to cater to your every desire unless you yourself wrote it. Especially in cases like T&M games, which are given to you for free, the authors are under no obligation to give you ANYTHING. And before the inevitable argument is made about those who use Patr.on-like systems, remember that you are free to stop paying at any time if you feel like you aren't getting what you want. If you play a game, and the game didn't happen to tickle your "geriatric German grandmas spanking Spanish men" fantasy, or only had three branches when you require at least 37, before you excoriate the game creator on an anonymous internet forum, stop for a second. Take a breath. Was the game technically sound? Did it have egregious spelling errors, or crash every 5 minutes, or give you a virus? If not, then the game itself was not a problem. The fact that it didn't give you what you wanted is not a problem with the game, or a problem with the game creator, it is merely a mismatch between what the game IS and what you WANT. Getting angry about that is like getting angry that a romantic comedy movie didn't have any slasher scenes. Find a different game, or make your own. Stop complaining about the "bad games" from game creators who release technically sound games.

Creators: Don't let idiots ruin your fun. It's something of an indictment on our society, but for every one person who says nice things about your game on the internet there are going to be ten who say that it's the worst thing ever created. The vast majority of the time, they're complaining about the non-problems discussed above. Look at Amazon reviews. How many times do you see some idiot give a product a 1-star review because it doesn't come in EXACTLY the shade of blue they want? Never mind that the product is a technological masterpiece, will never break, generates excess power which you can use to charge your phone, and will walk your dog while you're at work in addition to its main purpose. Very few people write positive reviews - it's mostly entitled idiots. Create the games that YOU want to make. The games will be better for the passion you bring to something you're genuinely invested in. If you want to solicit suggestions or feedback, do so with the knowledge that a good portion of it will be useless to your growth as a creator. Remember that all "suggestions" made by players should be taken as requests, which you may consider or not at your own discretion. You will never please everyone. Trying to do so leads only to frustration, madness, and burnout.

Tlaero and Mortze, since I am guilty of exactly what I talked about, let me say this now: I appreciate your work very much. Your games are technically excellent, especially when compared to many of the other similar free games floating around the seedy end of the internet. For the most part, I greatly enjoy the content, as well. Mortze's artwork is top-notch, as is Tlaero's writing. There are times when I would have preferred different choices, but I recognize that the choices you two made were valid artistic choices, consistent with the stories you were trying to tell.

Keep up the good work for as long as you both still enjoy the process - I'll be here, enjoying the fruits of your labors!
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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby Mortze » Fri, 17May19 15:27

FedoraMan wrote:and the game didn't happen to tickle your "geriatric German grandmas spanking Spanish men" fantasy,

Taking notes. [img]kator/smiley196.gif[/img]
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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby RobNorthman » Fri, 17May19 16:12

Mortze wrote:
FedoraMan wrote:and the game didn't happen to tickle your "geriatric German grandmas spanking Spanish men" fantasy,

Taking notes. [img]kator/smiley196.gif[/img]

Please don't :lol:

EDIT: Actually if anyone can make it look good it's you Mortze, so power on! [img]images/icones/icon7.gif[/img]
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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby Crane » Fri, 17May19 16:40

Does that mean that the next game's 0.001aVersion will have a scene of the German soldier's grandma spanking and straponing our Hero's Spanish grandpa and that's how it all starts? [img]kator/smiley34.gif[/img]

I'm already ordering my popcorns. :amoureux (87):
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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby moskys » Sat, 17May20 10:40

Crane wrote: Some people want the main protagonists to be men. It's not about explosions it's about being the center of attention\attraction.


That's probably the most accurate sentence I've ever read on this forum. [img]images/icones/icon7.gif[/img] [img]images/icones/icon7.gif[/img] [img]images/icones/icon7.gif[/img] [img]images/icones/icon7.gif[/img]

I really think it explains almost every single discussion raised by Tlaero's games (at least, those non-related with agency and playability). Too many macho hormones flowing around.
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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby moskys » Sat, 17May20 10:57

tlaero wrote:I'm not sure what to make of constructive criticism. People say that they want changes, but, almost universally, when I make those changes, no one cares.

...



I also fully agree with the whole statement there. BUT you are wrong. Because many people do care. But the ones who'll criticize will always focus on the things they didn't like, that's natural. Some would provide well-thought advice, others would just be harsh and non-empathic ranters. But the point here is that all of them have played your game. And you know better than anybody else how your audience keeps growing title after title and ratings are always high. You'll never be able to satisfy everyone's desires, and trying to pursue that goal is the easiest and fastest way to a complete failure. But you also know that at this point.
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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby Tao Dude » Sun, 17May21 00:18

moskys wrote:
tlaero wrote:I'm not sure what to make of constructive criticism. People say that they want changes, but, almost universally, when I make those changes, no one cares.

...



I also fully agree with the whole statement there. BUT you are wrong. Because many people do care. But the ones who'll criticise will always focus on the things they didn't like, that's natural. Some would provide well-thought advice, others would just be harsh and non-empathic ranters. But the point here is that all of them have played your game. And you know better than anybody else how your audience keeps growing title after title and ratings are always high. You'll never be able to satisfy everyone's desires, and trying to pursue that goal is the easiest and fastest way to a complete failure. But you also know that at this point.


I have to agree with this sentiment. Tlaero, you and Mortze do what most of us on here cannot do, which is to craft sexy games, and we thank you deeply for that. But you can only do what you know how to do, and as everyone is different, we all have different expectations of the games we play, and sometimes you can't do right for doing wrong in somebody's eyes.

I would draw a parallel with when I used to do amateur dramatics: nobody would say anything if the lighting operator or sound person did their job right and everything went smoothly, but the actors would criticise any missed cues, even if the audience didn't notice. If people don't say anything when you change something in response to a comment, it's not because they don't care, it's because you now have it right in their eyes, and maybe they forgot to say thank you.
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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby Meushi » Sun, 17May21 01:17

tlaero wrote:Say I give people a game with 16 interconnected branches driven by user choices, that lead to completely different outcomes, with three different females to have sex with?

Please don't, that's what BEW is for!

Your games offer different pleasures, the well developed females characters are one of their greatest appeals, which would only be diluted with a write your own adventure-esque approach.

tlaero wrote:I have a day job, and, outside of it, I spend 10 - 20 hours a week, every week, writing these games. I give them away for free. Sometimes I wonder why I bother...

Hopefully it's because you enjoy the creative process, which is why it's important to focus on developing something you like first & foremost. No point trying to please everyone, it's simply not possible.

tlaero wrote:And then I remember that the majority of the feedback is positive and that the majority of my players enjoy the games. And I take a deep breath and try to push the ugly out of my head. Some days I do better at that than others.

The vast majority of your players don't say anything at all. They just lurk quietly looking forward to the next game because what you & Mortze are producing is great.
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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby Tao Dude » Sun, 17Jul02 00:01

Meushi wrote:
tlaero wrote:I have a day job, and, outside of it, I spend 10 - 20 hours a week, every week, writing these games. I give them away for free. Sometimes I wonder why I bother...

Hopefully it's because you enjoy the creative process, which is why it's important to focus on developing something you like first & foremost. No point trying to please everyone, it's simply not possible.

tlaero wrote:And then I remember that the majority of the feedback is positive and that the majority of my players enjoy the games. And I take a deep breath and try to push the ugly out of my head. Some days I do better at that than others.

The vast majority of your players don't say anything at all. They just lurk quietly looking forward to the next game because what you & Mortze are producing is great.


It is a funny quirk of human nature that if you give somebody something for free and they don't like it, they will tend to say so, whereas if they have spent some money on it because they like something else that you have done, they are less likely to complain, because they have a personal investment in it and don't want to admit to an error of judgement.

Strange as it may seem, if I criticise yours or anyone else's work on this forum, it is not that I want you to change anything, it is more to provoke discussion, and see where my interpretation of your work sits in the range of responses. Quite often the discussion makes me realise that I had missed a nuance. That happened with the Maggie character from the Pandoraverse: initially, like several others, I did not like her that much, but the discussions have allowed me to see aspects of her that were not immediately obvious. It is possible that i am reading more into her than there is, but only time will tell on that point.

Best,
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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby tlaero » Sun, 17Jul02 23:13

If you're a patron (any level), then you've been seeing the progress we're making on the next game. We haven't announced the name of the game (nor the name of the protagonist, for that matter), but have announced that it's an Elsa-verse game and is the follow on to Finding Miranda.

I'll probably announce the name in July or August. I want to get a little farther in before I reveal anything. But I enjoy the speculation and wild ideas you folks come up with. So, if you want to guess, now's the time to do it, and this is the place.

If XCooler2's conspiracy theory is right, and if you've ever been a Partner-level patron and read the short story "FM: Alpha," then there's a fairly strong suggestion that the female lead's name starts with a "C." Does that give it away, or is it an intentional misdirection? And, if that does give it away, what does it mean? And what about Serena, the hot secondary character that last month's Partner-level patrons got to see naked and who Mortze and I have been somewhat infatuated with? Will there be a sex scene with her? If so, how will the player be involved? Enquiring minds want to know.

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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby Marco6661 » Tue, 17Jul04 20:52

J'avais réfléchi il y a un moment de ça à la suite de Finding Miranda.

Volet N°4 possible:
-Rescuing Chloé :

Chloé a été laissée dans FM déchirée entre ses obligations familiales forcées et sa recherche sous-entendue de soutien à la cause de son amie Miranda (YellowFever), l’obligeant à l’isolement, rejetée de tous.

-Maintien ou reprise du contact entre YellowFever et Xara.
-Explication des circonstances du coma de Miranda, acceptation de sa part de la notion de dommage collatéral.
-Acceptation d’Elsa du repentir de Chloé, rencontre et réconciliation possible lors d’un rêve (sexuel ? à deux, trois … ou plus ?).
-Récupération de Chloé et acceptation (intégration ?) dans le groupe Xara, elle-même ayant expliquée précédemment qu’elle n’avait pas toujours été du bon côté.

Possibilités d’échecs :
-Découverte de la planque de Chloé par Morland (découverte de l’existence de YellowFever sur le Net –intervention de Crow-).
-Fuite d’informations liée à une aventure sexuelle entre un ou plusieurs des trois garçons et Chloé, celle-ci ayant trouvée le moyen de reprendre contact par l’intermédiaire de Gary par exemple (Morland fait surveiller les faits et gestes de tout le monde -Chloé disparait de la circulation-)
-Aventure sexuelle entre Cynthia/Gary et Chloé, les deux premiers à la recherche d’une expérience nouvelle (Charles ou Conner impliqué dans ce qui devient une partie à quatre et enlevant Chloé après avoir ficelé le couple dans une séance bondage).

Aventures sexuelles :
-Sylvia décide de revivre secrètement une expérience avec Marc (dissolution des couples Jessica/Marc et Sylvia/Sarah, mort de Mayhem –échec !-).
-Rencontre en rêve d’Elsa/Jason et d’une ou plusieurs personnes de la trilogie.
-Aventure entre Xara et Lucas lors d’un cours de diplomatie (beaucoup de possibilités avec par exemple Miranda en instigatrice (+) ou Miranda les surprenants (échec).
-Partie à quatre (cinq) entre Miranda/Jason et Ismael + une copine + Luana (pas d’inceste…) après une virée à la plage ou une séance de sauna.
-…




English :

I had thought a moment ago of that following Finding Miranda.

N°4, RYF (Rescuing YellowFever, Chloè):

Chloé was left in FM torn between her forced family obligations and her implied search for support the cause of her friend Miranda ( YellowFever), obliging her to stay isolated, rejected by all.

-Preservation or resumption contact between YellowFever and Xara.
- Explanation circumstances of Miranda's coma, acceptance from her the notion of collateral damage.
- Chloé rescue and acceptance (integration?) in the Xara’s group, herself having explained previously that she had not still been on the good side.

Possible fails:
- Discovering the Chloe’s hideout by Morland (discovered by the existence of YellowFever on the Web -Crow’s intervention-).
- Information leak bound to a sexual adventure between one or several of three boys and Chloé, this one having found the way to resume contact through Gary for example (Morland makes watch the actions of everybody -Chloé disappears from the traffic).
- Sexual adventure between Cynthia / Gary and Chloé, both first ones in search of a new experience (Charles or Conner involved in what becomes a party for four and kidnapping Chloé having tied up the couple in a bondage session).

Sexual adventures:
-Sylvia decide to relive secretly an experience with Marc (dissolution of the couples Jessica / Marc and Sylvia / Sarah, Mayhem died - failure!-).
- Meeting in dream of Elsa / Jason and one or several people of the trilogy.
- Adventure between Xara and Lucas during a course of diplomacy (many possibilities with for example Miranda in instigator (+) or Miranda the surprising (failure).
- Party at four ( five) between Miranda / Jason and Ismael + a friend + Luana (no incest…) after a trip to the beach or a sauna (hot tube)session.

Marco [img]images/icones/icon13.gif[/img]
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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby Kroq-Gar » Sat, 17Jul22 23:15

Ok ,don't keep me wrong Tlaero and Mortze but I should say this is the game I liked less of all your games.
Basically i think it's too influenced by a female mentality ,It gives too much importance to shades of meaning ,so if you say " i do it " or if you say "maybe i can do it" you get a completely different effect by saying the same thing(for a man is the same i can say both suiving my mood ).Men usually don't give all that difference to phrasing we are more simple minded. Basically the game is boring ,a lot of boring parts and chatting and if you don't chose always correct phrases (difficut with so small differences) you miss even all sex scenes . This game is too much seen from female point of view .I don't even like to see the "monster"unmakeupped Miranda in chat lol she's just barely good compared to the one with make-up on they seems 2 different persons. Well You had the preoccupation of doing a more complicate game with different choices that lead to a different story but for this kind of spot clicking or dialogue clicking games i think all that is too much ,too many futile complications that a man woul dnot care about you have done the mistake that you often say to male developers doing games from the point of view of a girl ,this time the point of view is too much female for a male character...Getting to know Christine and Redemption for Jessika were far more simple and more arousing then this one...(that's why they are better in standing at playforce one)As said before this game is too much from a female point of view.Boring...sorry my 2 cents I don't even have wanting to play it again to see other roads.....
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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby moskys » Sun, 17Jul23 10:01

Kroq-Gar wrote:Ok ,don't keep me wrong Tlaero and Mortze but I should say this is the game I liked less of all your games.
Basically i think it's too influenced by a female mentality ,It gives too much importance to shades of meaning ,so if you say " i do it " or if you say "maybe i can do it" you get a completely different effect by saying the same thing(for a man is the same i can say both suiving my mood ).Men usually don't give all that difference to phrasing we are more simple minded. Basically the game is boring ,a lot of boring parts and chatting and if you don't chose always correct phrases (difficut with so small differences) you miss even all sex scenes . This game is too much seen from female point of view .I don't even like to see the "monster"unmakeupped Miranda in chat lol she's just barely good compared to the one with make-up on they seems 2 different persons. Well You had the preoccupation of doing a more complicate game with different choices that lead to a different story but for this kind of spot clicking or dialogue clicking games i think all that is too much ,too many futile complications that a man woul dnot care about you have done the mistake that you often say to male developers doing games from the point of view of a girl ,this time the point of view is too much female for a male character...Getting to know Christine and Redemption for Jessika were far more simple and more arousing then this one...(that's why they are better in standing at playforce one)As said before this game is too much from a female point of view.Boring...sorry my 2 cents I don't even have wanting to play it again to see other roads.....


Man, I think you should consider what "female point of view" and "male point of view" really are. Because you're saying that trying to show some empathy towards Miranda and being loyal to a certain personality you choose for Lucas when you start the game is a "female point of view". Really? Empathy and coherence are not a woman thing but a human thing. I don't want to judge but if you can't see the differences between dialogue options (ok, there are a few ones pretty similar, but just a few) just because you're a man and men don't care about that differences, I think you are totally wrong not about this game but about life. I'm a man and I'm definitely not simple minded and I find very disgusting that some men accept that way of thinking and are even proud of it. Sorry my 2 cents
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Re: Finding Miranda (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

Postby JFR » Sun, 17Jul23 14:32

moskys wrote:... Sorry my 2 cents

Don't be. I pretty much stopped paying attention when I saw that "men are simple-minded" nonsense. :sarcastic:
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