Envying Celina

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Re: Envying Celina

Postby muttdoggy » Tue, 16Nov22 03:16

Super wrote:Yea, I'm really unable to grasp my mind around the finer points of game design or writing. I'm sorry :(

Even though it's not easy for me to figure out all the routes, you've turned out a very good game in my opinion. I'm glad you've done the best you can and you have delivered something worth playing as evidenced by the feedback you're getting.
Don't beat yourself up over this. I wish I could do half the job you did. [img]images/icones/icon7.gif[/img]
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Re: Envying Celina

Postby Powerbee » Tue, 16Nov22 13:52

May I ask: What's the actuelly version of data.js? I lost the overview ... [img]images/icones/icon9.gif[/img]
The version I use has imho a lot of mistakes: In redirect-requirement-statements there are many checks like "if var1 < 10 do this" and "if var1 > 10 do those". If var1 is exactly 10 it fails and game doesn't progress.
*In addition: For example at section "beachConversation2" the handling of variables "celina" and "celinaSuspect". if celina is equal 10 or celinaSuspect is equal 6 then game fails.
** My english language is pretty bad. **
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Re: Envying Celina

Postby The Maltese Budgie » Tue, 16Nov22 14:49

I've been enjoying it for the most part, but I'm stumped with any kind of progress, as I have only seen 3 of the endings despite my best efforts. Has anyone done all 5 and made notes, as I feel a walkthrough would help hugely in closing out the last 2 endings; it's a sign of my desperation that I ask in this open and dignity ransacking manner ;)
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Re: Envying Celina

Postby evilgrim » Tue, 16Nov22 16:43

I am with Maltese on this one , but at least he has got more ending then me lol a walk through or maybe some good hints would be good
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Re: Envying Celina

Postby Sarchx » Tue, 16Nov22 21:16

Super wrote:Yea, I'm really unable to grasp my mind around the finer points of game design or writing. I'm sorry :(


You got nothing to be sorry about, it's a learning curve I'm sure, and you have taken your idea, and brought life to it. Keep going!

I like the game, and the idea - but as others have written, there should be some indication about how you are progressing so you can continue the path you choose, and not miss a key element somewhere, that leads nowhere.
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Re: Envying Celina

Postby tlaero » Wed, 16Nov23 02:51

Super wrote:Yea, I'm really unable to grasp my mind around the finer points of game design or writing. I'm sorry :(


Super, you should not think that, and there's nothing to be sorry about. Your two games have been good. And, in both of them, you tried to do things to advance the genre. Considering the number of games I've seen that are just raw copies of other games, it's downright admirable that you're doing your own thing.

Writing is a skill, like any other. You get better with practice. Before I even started in this space I had written seven novels and fifty short stories. This is not to say that you need to write a ton of stuff to be good. This is to say that you shouldn't feel bad about your second story. Make another, and another, and another, and bask in the glow of people saying how impressed they are with your improvements.

Game development is also a skill that you'll get better at with practice. Again, I'm literally a professional software developer. I've made a living writing software for ... longer than I'd like to admit. But, if I remember your age correctly, possibly longer than you've been alive. Keep practicing.

And hold your head up high. Look at the "Projects" section of the lagoon. Look at the number of people who plan to make a game and haven't succeeded in releasing one yet. You've released two. Keep it up.

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Re: Envying Celina

Postby tlaero » Wed, 16Nov23 03:58

sylakone2 wrote:I have the utmost Respect for you and I really appreciate your feedback but I do not understand why you always seem to have a problem with my image sizes.
First thing is this.
Our game is 256mb in this day and age that is miniscule due to download speed and even the fact that even the smallest tablets and smartphones have Gbs of space.
Pretty much every other game I play in this Genre is way larger. e.g most of Chaotics games are around the GB mark now.
Secondly
The WBA engine expands the pictures to suit whatever resolution you are running at. It does not reduce it to a small window.
On my 27" which I play all of these games on the quality difference is very very noticeable being an artist I probably notice this more than most players but really?


I'll stop harping on this after this post.

First, I stopped downloading "Starship Inanna" updates because I felt the wait time for the downloads wasn't worth the number of pictures they provided. Those folks literally lost at least one player because they didn't compress their images. Maybe I'm the only one. Probably not. Similarly, I probably won't download updates to Envying Celina (though I WILL download your next game). Even though you're allowing people to just update the .js, I didn't keep the files after I finished playing. So I'd need to redownload it if I wanted to play an updated version.

Second, if you reduce your game to 1/5th the size, it will take 5 times longer before your host decides you're using too much bandwidth and shuts you down.

Third, I play at 4K on a 32inch monitor that is about 2 feet away. I still don't think the supersized files are worth it.

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Re: Envying Celina

Postby sylakone2 » Wed, 16Nov23 08:40

I'll stop harping on this after this post.

First, I stopped downloading "Starship Inanna" updates because I felt the wait time for the downloads wasn't worth the number of pictures they provided. Those folks literally lost at least one player because they didn't compress their images. Maybe I'm the only one. Probably not. Similarly, I probably won't download updates to Envying Celina (though I WILL download your next game). Even though you're allowing people to just update the .js, I didn't keep the files after I finished playing. So I'd need to redownload it if I wanted to play an updated version.

Second, if you reduce your game to 1/5th the size, it will take 5 times longer before your host decides you're using too much bandwidth and shuts you down.

Third, I play at 4K on a 32inch monitor that is about 2 feet away. I still don't think the supersized files are worth it.

Tlaero


Hey Lady Tlaero

It is all good. One of the reasons it was so big was I had accidentily left a couple of Avi's that where the raw renders of 2 of the animations.
That was 80mb of space just there.
As far as host that is not a problem as currenlty we are just sharing from my onedrive and googledrive.
As I said earlier if and when we do an online version of the game I will compress the images further to improve the page loading speeds.
Your jpgconv utility is very good for that. :)

Cheers

Sy
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Re: Envying Celina

Postby master110 » Wed, 16Nov23 11:31

All I can get is the bad ending. Pretty hard game TBH. It must need all correct options or its over.
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Re: Envying Celina

Postby Brontozaurio » Fri, 16Nov25 12:14

Well, after several plays I can tell this one is a bit more difficult than other games because logic behind is different from most.
Most games reward you for a daring play but not this one, Celina and Luke are really "traditional" and the don't like most of the sexy innuendoes. IMMO choices are not always consistent as the same sentence in a different part produce sometimes different effects, but it probably just me not understanding the logic and not a failure in the designer side.
It has been only after I checked the code i could start to understand the logic behind the game, it took me a lot of time to compile the variables and how decisions affect you, so instead of doing a proper walkthrough at this moment (maybe I'll do it later, maybe not) I'm going to tell you all the sentences that affect the different variables and you can decide what path you want to follow up.

The sentences are in the same order as they are produced in the code
As I understand the variables (I can be wrong on this) celina is how you like her, luke is how you like him, curiosity is how she likes you, it is unclear to me how lust affects to the endings, and celinasuspect is clearly a wrong thing to increase

learned from the best celina+1
Eh, it's nothing, really.celina+1
Worse. What ever happened to my shy little Celina celina+1
Only if we stop for Ice Cream on the Way luke+1
ah come on luke lust+1
So, how much farther till we get there celina+1
Zoom in on Celina touching Luke's thighs lust+2
Just thought I'd give you two lovebirds some time to fuck, is all curiosity+1, lust+1 celina embarrassed+1
Check out Luke's ass lust+1
So, what's he like in bed sextalk+1
Continue staring at Luke's ass celinasuspect+1
Come on, I know you've done it. Why don't you tell me, girl to girl? celina+2
Uh... nothing celina+2
What do you think? Staring at your boyfriend's ass celina+1
Hell yeah it is! celina+1
"He sure is...\ celinasuspect+1
Hey, I'm happy for you celina+1
You just want to have gotten rid of me so you could have some alone time with Luke, don't you? lust+1
Heh, didn't really want to deprive you two of my presence celina+1
Oh, just girl stuff. suppose to add 1 to luke but it is bugged
Even though I had done it before, there just seemed something... wrong about fucking him. Almost as if... I was cheating on Luke? God damn it... luke +3
I'm not dumb, I know what's happening in there... And, as much as I hate to admit it, it's making me horny..."/continue lust+1
Not much privacy for, well, you know... celina-1 luke-1
Sorry, I've had... things on my mind celinasuspect+1
Oh, I have a feeling the two of you will be spending time here... celina-1 luke -1
Is she... getting jealous? celina-1
A couple big, strong, handsome guys? Yeah, I think I could live with that luke+1 lust+1
Well, I just mean for me, personally luke+1
Oh? Good or bad? luke-1
Oh, I'd never tell...luke+1
Sigh luke-1
What tipped you off? celina+1
Watch curiosity+1 lust+1
Watch lust+3
Me too... lust+1
Why can't I be the one holding that dick.. celina-1
Zoom in on Luke's O face luke+1
Better go take a little walk, so they don't know I was spying on them spied+1
Oh god...lust+2
Go back to the hotel (after fuck in the beach) hookedup+1
Five more minutes...celina+1
Eh, it's fine, I know you two needed the space celina+1
Sorry I had to get in the way of your alone time. celina-1
ey, we can't all have gorgeous men to sleep with celinasuspect+1
Morning, gorgeous celinasuspect+1
"Hmmmmm, maybe... luke+1
Eh, I can wait, Celina you go celina+1
Well, since you two already took a shower last night, I might as well go first lust+1 curiosity+1
Wow, Celina. You really should be more willing to show off that hot bod of yours celina-1
Look at Celina's ass curiosity+1
select luke for the cream celinasuspect+1
celina curiosity +1
Hey, Luke is your man, Celina celina+1 luke+1
Sometimes a sexy man, sometimes a sexy woman curiosity+1
Moan (when luke is giving you cream) celinasuspect+1 luke+1
Hey, Can't blame me. Your hands felt good luke+1 celina-2

if you fucked guy on the beach:
Yeah, some great sex god you were luke-2 celina-2
Last I checked, you weren't really a stud... celina-2 luke-2
Turn to Celina and Luke "knowHookedUp+1
Hey, you're not the only one who needs a good fucking... lust+2
Wow, Celina. Didn't think you had that kind of language in you celina-1
Look, I told you yesterday at the hotel I expectef you two to fuck, so why couldn't I have some fun? celina+2

Sigh... no one like you...luke+2
It's alright. Can I just get some sunscreen now? hookedUpMadeUp+1
Luke gives me a rubdown. I feel a bit guilty, but I still enjoy it a bit too much. And I think Celina saw that. /continue celinasuspect+1 lust+2

if you chose david for the cream:
I need some help with this lotion david+1

Hey, about about you, Luke? celinasuspect+1
What about you, Celina? Give me a hand? curiosity+1
Hey, that's Celina's man, not mine celina+1 celinasuspect-1
What him? Nah, he's just a total loser, right Luke? luke+1
Huh... you dork celina+1
Is that all? Don't worry about it celina+1
What? No, don't be crazy celina-2
We really doing this celina-4
Yeah, I fucked him, and I regret it. Can we move on? celina-2
I'm straight as an arrow. curiosity +1
I told you, don't worry about it. celina-1
Aw, and I was expecting you to bring back ice cream celina+1 luke+1
You're telling me... I regret it more than you can imagine celina+1
Yeah, well, I did. Can we move on? celina-1
Well... Might as well come clean. You're right, I do have a crush on Luke celinaconfirmed+1
What? No, he's your man, Celina!celina -2 celinasuspect+1
Honestly, I thought you'd be a bit angrier. celina+1

sex talk in the beach:
You know, you don't need to- celina+1
Bet he was better than my first. celina+1
Sounds nice... celinasuspect+1
What? No, no way! he's your man! celina-2
So how was the water?lust+2 celinasuspect+1
You know, I've always had a thing for vanilla... luke+1, lust+1,celinasuspect+2
Oh, gee, thanks Celina!luke+1 celina+2
Celina... you okay? celina-2
Try to ignore it celina-1

in the shower:
daydreaming with celina: Continue masturbating anyway/She reaches toward me../and lust+3 celina+1 curiosity+3
daydreaming with luke: I cum, so hard/ continue luke+3 lust+3 celina-1

He's kind of funny... but I still can't think about anyone besides Luke... Maybe I should just get out of here. luke+1

Variables are checked for different ways, here some of the requirements
lust>13
celina>9
celina>11
celina>14
celinasuspect>4
celinasuspect>6
lust>15
luke>11
luke>15
curiosity>4
curiosity>6

Endings
1 unable to move on
2 a fresh start
3 friendship crushed
4 a future ruined
5 feeling guilty


As I said this is an "ikea" walktrough, you have to mount it yourself :lol: :crazy:
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Re: Envying Celina

Postby Whiskeydoodle » Fri, 16Nov25 16:46

Damn!

I still don't get it, even with your walkthroughis infos. Some of the dialogue options I have never seen before.

This game is interesting, but I just can't figure out which strategy to pick, to get to a certain result. I mean is it helpful to piss Celina off, to get closer to Luke or do I need to get April horny, to get her to hit on Luke or Celina?

I really don't get it. It is quite frustrating, really! :-(
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Re: Envying Celina

Postby Super » Tue, 16Nov29 23:22

I've been really depressed recently fornreasons won't get to here, but thanks anyway for kind words

My problem is that I just don't really understand people which is why my dialogue probably doesn't work

Tlaero asked why April was black, and the answer is simple: I find black girls hot. Originally, she was to be the threesome "prize" in inspiring Celina but at the very end I figured it wouldn't make sense at all considering the whole point of that story was to be pure and stuff so that's why I stopped it. In this game I brought her back because I liked the concept. Originally this game was to be to get a threesome, but the way I wrote it didn't really work so I came up with this way. Though perhaps a drunken thing would fit more into the theme of moving on... by the one I thought of that was too late though haha

Next game if I make one would probably be more fantasy or sci fi and less dialogue based lol
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Re: Envying Celina

Postby ntentacle » Wed, 16Nov30 04:57

I also can't get anything other than ending one. Choices required to do so are evidently far too specific.

Yup. Not playable as a game without a walkthrough. Even after looking at a list of variables and trying every combination of dialogue options that I care to I cannot get any other endings or scenes. I've played through about a dozen times.
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Re: Envying Celina

Postby Chessy » Wed, 16Nov30 22:34

Hey Super,

I was surprised about playing a black girl, and I am thinking free (most of the time), so it's not a big deal for me to imagine being her (in this limited space of course) [img]images/icones/icon12.gif[/img] , or have fun with the idea

But maybe, your game is to realistic in some ways ?
The reality is, unfulfilled love and desires for a lot of people of all races and kind.
And your game is showing this fact to them what they don't want to see (wich is really comprehensible for me).
Because the reality is around them 24/7 so they are looking for things beside the boring ordinary (not your game, don't get me wrong), but not as a beautiful black woman.
I think they have reservations or simple mislike playing the opposite sex or a different race. But this is not their fault, and also not yours...

You have made a game the way you wanted and you have finished it, congrats - I didn't have done anything particular until now.
If you want to produce a bestseller you have to do it more mainstream, but is it still the game you have had in mind at the beginning then ?.
If you want the people to love your game, create a game with content they have asked for, but...(see above) [img]smile/eek.gif[/img]

Some guys do a brilliant work, writing a book, making a movie etc. and only a fistful of people will be aware about it ever.
Some gyus do a ordinary work but become famous worldwide - life isn't fair

I like your game and it dare me to deal with the idea, it's sense and the possibilities - but it's to much philosophy for an entertaining game with content 18+ I guess.
No one will ever prove that the intellectual abillities are located at the womb...

I have reached (after a couple of tries) 3 endings, but looking at the list of endings wich Brontozaurio offered, both don't look like beeing a good ending to me (to say it clear, it don't has to have good endings to be a good and amusing story.

Don't stick your head in the sand and keep up doing this kind of games.
Maybe you need a little help to ballance the prospects and create something big [img]images/icones/icon10.gif[/img] :)
Thumbs up! [img]images/icones/icon7.gif[/img]
Chessy

Life's a game, so let's make the next move...
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Re: Envying Celina

Postby jaime » Fri, 16Dec02 08:41

Interesting game. While the game feels a bit short, I am definitely impressed with the writing. Your characters actually feel like characters instead of cardboard cutouts that you manipulate into having sex, and you actually tried to do something that isn't the standard "guy meets girl, guy fucks girl, the end" story. Keep making games.

My biggest issue is that the "best" endings from a story perspective feels like a failure case from a game perspective.

To me, the "moving on" ending is the clear best option story-wise. It's the one ending where april seems sort of happy. The complete failure case is probably the second best (at least she doesn't screw anything up), and the other endings leave april significantly less happy than she started. However, from a gameplay perspective, the david ending is an easter egg failure. You ignore the major characters, run off with a side character, and don't get any sex scenes. It isn't even that hard to find. Getting there doesn't feel like "beating the game", it feels like "try again, you'll find something better". The gameplay simply isn't satisfying, even if I like the writing of the ending best.

To an extent, some of this is driven by the game's design and characters. The game is focused on celina and luke, and they simply aren't interested in a threesome. One of the strengths of the game is that the other characters aren't completely molded by the pc's choices, and a happy april x celina or april x luke ending would cheapen that. However, lengthening the david ending a bit by adding a sex scene would make that ending feel far more satisfying. The structure of the game makes it a bit of a side path no matter what you do, but at least it would be a more satisfying side path.


Also, bug report. The first time through, I got a dead end (picture with no options to continue) while talking to david the second time. My guess is that I had luke=15 going into checkFeelingsDavid, and it looks like you only provide redirects for when luke is less than 15 or greater than 15. If luke is exactly 15, you don't redirect to anywhere and get a dead end. However, that explanation is purely a guess -- I didn't try to check the value of the variable mid-game, and I haven't read through your core game engine code.
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