Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby phreaky » Sat, 11Jun18 07:47

ExLibris wrote:
I initially assumed that as well because Getting to Know Christine is sitting at just under 94%. But the original Rachel game, which has just as much group sex as the second and better characterisation as well, is sitting in the mid 80s. So I don't really have an explanation for that phenomena.


Well, in pf1, usually the ratings are higher on the first week of the game release and tend to decline over time. At least I noticed that happened to keeley and christine. in my opinion rachel2 should be somewhere along rachel1, but again I might be wrong. Most people looking for easy game with easy sex there, judging by so many mnf games at the top 15 :D
Oh, and also huge boobs :)

ExLibris wrote:
I have to admit that I look at Rachel and wonder, how the Hell she can get away without wearing a bra? And with only one wardrobe malfunction an evening? Not mention the amount of strain they must put on her back.


Well, I don't object to huge boobs, in fact rachel's are almost the same size as vanessa. But I spent quite some times to make vanessa's look at least a bit natural, with gravity etc. And differen positions should make such big boobs to change appearances, like hanging when the girl kneels, or lookin quite flat while the girl lies down.

Rachel's just look the same, sticking out like two soccer balls. How I would love to make them droop a little, giving them a more "soft" appearance :D
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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby tlaero » Sat, 11Jun18 17:49

Regarding spreading the game across multiple downloads and importing saved games or metadata. Phreaky and I taked about doing that with Christine. I ultimately rejected the idea because it would be so easy to bypass. When you consider the "please pm a walkthrough," "me too" phenomenon, I figured we'd just see people trading passwords. At that point, they're not even playing the game we worked so hard to produce.

I think all games need to be stand-alone. It's fine to have sequels with important plot aspects that tie them together. But, mechanically, they should be separate. This matches other forms of media as well. You don't need to enter a password from Fellowship of the Ring to read The Two Towers.

Then again, there's a benefit to importing your character from Mass Effect 1 into Mass Effect 2. Our games aren't currently complex enough to allow that kind of benefit, but maybe in the future. (The distant future. Don't get your hopes up. :-)

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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby kessie8yl » Sat, 11Jun18 22:14

Does anyone really take Leoniser's ratings that seriously? I mean compared to a lot of the crap out there, Chaotic's games are still head and shoulders over most... but to compare one of his games against another? I'm not sure it's that reliable... I know for a fact I've given quite a few games 100% without even intending to vote!

As for putting stuff behind paywalls.. If you must, you must, but I still prefer Shark's method of bringing everything out into the open once the paying members have had a good run at it - and have something new to play. That seems to be fair all round - because the free games attract more paying customers without excluding the rest of us who don't trust the payment systems or don't think a rehash of Jordan 500 is value for money or just don't wish to be a developer's beta tester or to have no guarantee that there will be anything new coming along. I'd like to hear Shark's views on the subject, to see how well his method works for him.

I don't really get the password thing either... If there are such a natural breaks in a game then why not just issue the sections as separate games? Yes, it may help to play them in the right order but, at the end of the day, that's up to the player to decide. All the messing about with passwords is artificial and they only last about 5 minutes before someone posts them in a forum somewhere. OK, so you want to show off your programming skills? Great - make a better game. If it was good enough for George Lucas... :)

Happy gaming all..
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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby thundergod » Sun, 11Jun19 04:39

The only point of the password system was to "open" access to content that would otherwise be closed. If that's not multiple games in a series, so be it. But, for instance, it might make the appeal of a paywalled Rachel game in which she entices X, Y, and/or Z into group sex greater if one has actually played the games involving one-on-one dates with X, Y, or Z. I'm not suggesting it will prevent piracy or solve the world's problems. I'm just saying that access to a Rachel/Kelly/player threesome is theoretically encouraged by having gone through the Kelly vDate and knowing how difficult/intriguing that might be. So if one finishes vDate Kelly and gets a password, one can play "Rachel Introduces Kelly to Football Orgies and Vibrating Tennis Rackets" "for which the password is requested to commence -- or better yet, continue after some intro activity -- the game). The goal is to entice those who already pay or are willing to pay for vDate games to be more committed. I don't think it will solve the "me want walkthrough" issue. But they're never going to pay anyway, so why would Chaotic care?
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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby kessie8yl » Sun, 11Jun19 20:41

thundergod wrote:The only point of the password system was to "open" access to content that would otherwise be closed. If that's not multiple games in a series, so be it. But, for instance, it might make the appeal of a paywalled Rachel game in which she entices X, Y, and/or Z into group sex greater if one has actually played the games involving one-on-one dates with X, Y, or Z. I'm not suggesting it will prevent piracy or solve the world's problems. I'm just saying that access to a Rachel/Kelly/player threesome is theoretically encouraged by having gone through the Kelly vDate and knowing how difficult/intriguing that might be. So if one finishes vDate Kelly and gets a password, one can play "Rachel Introduces Kelly to Football Orgies and Vibrating Tennis Rackets" "for which the password is requested to commence -- or better yet, continue after some intro activity -- the game). The goal is to entice those who already pay or are willing to pay for vDate games to be more committed. I don't think it will solve the "me want walkthrough" issue. But they're never going to pay anyway, so why would Chaotic care?


I still don't see the point. The passwords seem to be used to restart a game from a given point - unless we've got our wires crossed and you're talking about some other kind of password. Assuming that we both mean the same thing and the game is free then why not split it into x different parts, each able to be played independantly of the other? If players want to "spoil" the experience by playing them out of order that's their problem. If the games are behind a paywall the players have already paid - so the same thing applies.

Far be it for me to put words into Chaotic's mouth, but I think he cares because he wants to issue the free games as a means of advertising his paysite - I'm surprised he hasn't thought of putting a few billboards, etc, into the backgrounds of these games...

I totally agree with the "me want walkthrough" thing. Not only will they never pay, they'll never go away.. but at least we could get rid of the "me want password" zombies :)
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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby thundergod » Sun, 11Jun19 22:39

Unless I'm misremembering (and I very well might be), Shark put a password on Desire & Submission 2 that strongly encouraged one to play D&S 1 first to get the password and the backstory. Obviously this doesn't force anyone to do anything, and there will be plenty of folks eager to give out the password elsewhere or here via PM. But that's the sort of thing I'm talking about...a minor but present barrier to full and open access.

And as for the point...well, if the purpose is to keep cranking out underdeveloped games as fast as possible, then there's indeed no point. And I don't see any real way to make people who are never going to pay for something suddenly decide "hey, I want to pay for this!" (or go through the effort of finding a password the difficult way, or playing a game on their own rather than just following a walkthrough). But there *are* people who pay for these and other types of games, and there are various ways authors reward those who do while doing their best to keep others out. It seems to me that the best thing an author can do is to build loyalty and a sense of reward among actual paying customers. That requires quality games, which means that steps necessary to achieve that (like making each game less work but making the overall reward greater) should be considered. And it may also require taking steps to deliver an actual reward vs. not paying, which means that any barriers -- even minor -- that help assure paying customers that they're getting something exclusive (or) better (or) earlier than the general public are good.

It seems to me that someone willing to pay for the games from a given author is already inclined to appreciate ongoing rewards for that behavior. And so, a serial in which one game finishes with a password that unlocks the next game, or one game finishes with a password that unlocks member-only content, is a decent gesture towards that sort of reward. No, no one's going to be able to lock their games down in privacy and for eternity. But if the games are appealing enough, *those who are already willing to pay for them* aren't going to balk at taking the necessary steps to play for "keys" that unlock future content.

A hypothetical example: let's say some alternate universe GoblinBoy had asked for some sort of password or trivia answer that demonstrated one had played Camping Trip before one could begin School Dreams 3. And let's say he monetizes a fraction of that in some way. I think a fair number of people -- not the majority, certainly, but some -- would have made sure they got whatever word or info they needed from CT in order to play what was already being reviewed as a terrific game. Yes, people would have begged for and received the answer from others for free, but high-end security isn't really the point here; some authorial control is better than none if the purpose is monetization. Now, suppose that the password/key/whatever from CT didn't just unlock SD3, but set the player on one of the two paths that were theoretically promised by CT: choose Melissa in CT, you play SD3 for Molly; choose Becky in CT, you play for Kirsty in SD3. In the current system of free access to everything, there's no motivation other than GoblinBoy's desire to never, ever sleep to write *both* those games. In a hypothetical system in which he's making some money from it and more if he can deliver both, there's a motivation.

So: what is Chaotic's motivation to produce high-quality games? It's entirely possible that there's more than enough money to be made pushing out indifferent to fair games. But maybe there's more money to be made by making higher-quality games and building a dedicated audience, something more like what Shark or Puso have done. If it's the very "serve the paying public" process that's dragging the quality down and thus limiting the number of paying customers (as I noted way upthread, I wouldn't consider paying unless the games got a lot better, but I *would* pay for the next GoblinBoy game...I know I wouldn't *have* to, because eventually it would get out there for free, but I'd be motivated to do so because I know I'm going to be rewarded), then find a way to take the pressure off the quantity so a focus can be put on quality while still retaining paying customers. That's all I'm suggesting with the dual ideas of splitting games into series and linking them in some fashion beyond using the same characters.
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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby Werehunter » Mon, 11Jun20 03:09

kessie8yl wrote:Far be it for me to put words into Chaotic's mouth, but I think he cares because he wants to issue the free games as a means of advertising his paysite - I'm surprised he hasn't thought of putting a few billboards, etc, into the backgrounds of these games...


I've seen you posting this several times in one way or another, but I think you're completely wrong. Chaotic has a total of 22 games on his site and only 7 of those are from his offsite service. If his free games were only meant to be advertisements for this paysite, then there would be far more games in his paysite then his free section. Rather I see it that he puts a few games up as pay only to help him pay for the site and that's it.
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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby Squeeky » Mon, 11Jun20 03:40

Werehunter wrote:
kessie8yl wrote:Far be it for me to put words into Chaotic's mouth, but I think he cares because he wants to issue the free games as a means of advertising his paysite - I'm surprised he hasn't thought of putting a few billboards, etc, into the backgrounds of these games...


I've seen you posting this several times in one way or another, but I think you're completely wrong. Chaotic has a total of 22 games on his site and only 7 of those are from his offsite service. If his free games were only meant to be advertisements for this paysite, then there would be far more games in his paysite then his free section. Rather I see it that he puts a few games up as pay only to help him pay for the site and that's it.

I do believe that I recall Chaotic voicing his intent "to go pay" for the reason which you offered, and that was some time back. Pre the "Priv Box" Shark had a donation button at "Shark's Lagoon". Amid events Shark opted for a "Pay" option for much the same reason.
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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby kessie8yl » Mon, 11Jun20 17:34

Squeeky wrote:
Werehunter wrote:
kessie8yl wrote:Far be it for me to put words into Chaotic's mouth, but I think he cares because he wants to issue the free games as a means of advertising his paysite - I'm surprised he hasn't thought of putting a few billboards, etc, into the backgrounds of these games...


I've seen you posting this several times in one way or another, but I think you're completely wrong. Chaotic has a total of 22 games on his site and only 7 of those are from his offsite service. If his free games were only meant to be advertisements for this paysite, then there would be far more games in his paysite then his free section. Rather I see it that he puts a few games up as pay only to help him pay for the site and that's it.

I do believe that I recall Chaotic voicing his intent "to go pay" for the reason which you offered, and that was some time back. Pre the "Priv Box" Shark had a donation button at "Shark's Lagoon". Amid events Shark opted for a "Pay" option for much the same reason.


I also think the majority of the 22 were released before Chaotic thought of going "Offsite"...
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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby Werehunter » Mon, 11Jun20 20:33

Nope, his ninth game was his first offsite game. Since then the releases have been about half and half, though admitted one of the free games was a demo and another was a re-release with additional scenes. And half the offsite games were done one right after another when he was still creating content to make it worth people spending money on. Since then the ratio has favored the free games.

You might be right that he's only doing free games for advertising purposes, but I haven't seen anything other then your summation even hinting at that.
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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby Xyzzy987 » Mon, 11Jun20 21:07

Wait a minute....That's it?!? The so-called "Secret" ending? A blow job and pissing Rachel off is the whole secret ending? Someone please tell me I'm wrong here. If not, then my opinion of this game just went down a few notches.
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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby kessie8yl » Mon, 11Jun20 21:37

Werehunter wrote:Nope, his ninth game was his first offsite game. Since then the releases have been about half and half, though admitted one of the free games was a demo and another was a re-release with additional scenes. And half the offsite games were done one right after another when he was still creating content to make it worth people spending money on. Since then the ratio has favored the free games.

You might be right that he's only doing free games for advertising purposes, but I haven't seen anything other then your summation even hinting at that.


So by your own reckoning there were 8 games prior to Offsite. Take away the free games which are re-releases or demos.. of which there are at least 3, plus the reworking of Ariane makes a total of 12. Last time I checked 12 was more than 10... QED
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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby Werehunter » Mon, 11Jun20 23:44

Even removing those three, which by the way would make it seven games before he started his offsite, he still has a great deal more as free then he requires someone to pay for. And making five free games to advertise seven pay ones is horrible marketing. There is nothing to suggest he's making these free games to promote his off-site website. You have repeatedly criticized him for doing subpar advertisement without showing any proof that he's actually advertising. If you can show me one thing, a forum post, a blog post, something on his site, or in one of his games that support that all his free games are advertisements fine. But I think it's unfair of anyone to criticize someone for something that there's no sign of him actually doing.

It's far more likely that if he was doing these free games to advertise, they wouldn't be multilinear games. They all would be straight forward with one girl, one ending and be relatively easy. Instead we get games with three or more endings, multiple girls, and are rather challenging for some.
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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby ExLibris » Tue, 11Jun21 06:51

Xyzzy987 wrote:Wait a minute....That's it?!? The so-called "Secret" ending? A blow job and pissing Rachel off is the whole secret ending? Someone please tell me I'm wrong here. If not, then my opinion of this game just went down a few notches.


Sorry, you're not wrong.
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Re: Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

Postby Xyzzy987 » Tue, 11Jun21 19:38

Well, that's pretty disappointing. I usually enjoy Chaotic's games (for what they are -- Keely and Christine just blow vdategirls away), and was able to figure this one out fairly easily. I had gotten the other six endings, and on discovering that there was a secret ending, I was anticipating something special. But feh...this just sorta leaves a bad taste in your mouth. :(
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