Frames?

[Niauropsaka]

One thing I found interesting about the original "Date Ariane" was the use of frames in the html code. I notice that Chaotic and Tlaero don't use frames in their HTML games, but store information in cookies.

I was wondering what opinions players and playtesters had about frames in an html game.

[tlaero]

Cookies and Local storage. There's no wrong answer, though. If you find something that works for you, you should use it.

The initial primary goal of Adventure Creator was to make it easy for non-programmers to create games. The "Software developer who's also a fiction writer" combination isn't common, and I was seeing creative people struggle with the coding/html part of the games. So I intentionally made the HTML simple and straightforward and easy for a non-programmer to understand.

It's grown more complex since then, especially when I started using the tool to make my own games, and especially when BEW went crazy with the need for Div sections. Although I still try to keep a balance between functionality and ease of understanding, I suspect it tips pretty far away from the understandable side these days.

I'm not a fan of the "one page and large arrays of text to fill it" method, because it adds a lot of complexity for what I consider to be little benefit. But I know that works for other people.

Tlaero

[Wolfschadowe]

I personally find filling a game in frames to be too complex for my little brain. There are both benefits and down sides to using frames, but I can't say whether frames, or non-framed games are better. BEW uses frames primarily to hold the menu system, while the main game plays out through individual pages. It's the individual page aspect that helps me personally to keep track of the game, which is why I'm a big Fan of Adventure Creator, especially for first time game creators. It's just easier to keep track of everything.

Plus, Tlaero is awesome about change requests.

Wolfschadowe

[Germaniac]

Frames have nothing to do with storing information.

Using frames can be one method to create an area on each page of the game. Frames are often used for the menu. Current browsers support frames, but the HTML <frame> tag will not be supported in HTML5.

Another method can be the HTML <div> tag, but using this HTML tag is for persons with not so good HTML knowledge more difficult than using frames.

A game creator should use the method which he understands and he can code in HTML.
If a game creator only knows how to use frames, he can either create a game with frames or he can´t create or finish the game.

Dating Ariane is an old game with many pages. The first version of the game came out twelve years ago. It was created by using FrontPage 4.0. Perhaps, when the game creator started to code the first version of the game, he had decided, because of some reason, to use frames in Dating Ariane. After finishing so many pages he cannot switch the game to a game without frames because if he wants no frames he had to change all pages.

I personally prefer games without frames, because of several most personal reasons.
I still remember the time when not all browser support frames and I learned HTML a short time before frames were seen as evil.
If I change the size of the browser window showing a web site with frames, a scrollbar appears somehwere on the screen.
I personally respect sites which are good programmed. Using the HTML div tag is for me personally better programming than using frames.

[muttdoggy]

The author of "Date Ariane" went on to build another HTML version and then also did a Ren'Py version of "Date Ariane". She also released a game called "Something's in the Air" that''s based on the "Date Ariane" universe. She has a site over at arianeb.com so if you wanted to ask or browse it for info, you could do that. I still have the offline and renpy versions and play them every now and then.
As an avid player, I couldn't tell you what a frame or non-frame version of HTML is. I did notice that in many cases, you oftentimes couldn't save the game. But if you could, you'd have to know how to get to your local storage or your cookies. A few games allow you to export a save to a text file and that's a good way to continue an old save since I regularly wipe all cookies. I like how many people can use the HTML games but if there isn't a way to export a save from an html game, especially if it's complex and has branching paths, then people will inevitably complain.
There's also the issue of deciding "what screen size do I use" because not everyone uses the same size. So if the game is built using a small screen size, it could appear pixellated on the larger screens and if it's too big for a smaller screen, it'll be a pain to navigate or find buttons, etc. Those are the only 2 gripes I've noticed with HTML games even thought its very platform friendly. A guy running a mac or linux can run it as long as they have a browser capable of running HTML and that's been around since 1990.